From galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!think.com!sdd.hp.com!mips!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utzoo!telly!problem!intacc!zerobeat Fri Jul 17 05:06:11 EDT 1992
Article: 12561 of rec.music.industrial
Xref: galois rec.music.industrial:12561 rec.music.misc:38237 alt.music.alternative:3059
Path: galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!think.com!sdd.hp.com!mips!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utzoo!telly!problem!intacc!zerobeat
From: zerobeat@intacc.uucp (Ferenc Szabo)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial,rec.music.misc,alt.music.alternative
Subject: Re: Violence & the Sacred (was TORONTO INDUSTRIAL)
Message-ID: <1992Jul13.230615.5356@intacc.uucp>
Date: 13 Jul 92 23:06:15 GMT
References: <2172.928.uupcb@bville.gts.org> 
Organization: Inter/Access' Matrix BBS
Lines: 52
Status: RO

In article  mrl28033@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael R Linksvayer) writes:
>Anyone know about Violence and the Sacred? Not exactly
>industrial, probably more "experimental" whatever that means,
>although I think they are mainly from Toronto. Several months
>ago I got a few addresses (all in Toronto) where I might find
>out about recordings from an airshifter on the local community
>radio station but I've had no luck getting replies.
>

Yes.......Violence and the Sacred was the most important band in the mid
to late 80's ever to come out of.......oops sorry.  I was the drummer
in VioSac in 1986.  There was one incarnation of the band before I joined
and it was similar....ie there was drums, singing, lyrics, songs that were
rehearsed although far from pop or commercial.  There were two songs that
had sections with 4/4 time.  There was a bassist/cellist, guitarist who
played through a Roland SH-5 synth, organ player, synth player, and vocalist
who also smacked a few percussion instruments together.

To quote a fairly accurate description of our music: "a stranger, yet more
coherent Butthole Surfers" or " a really agressive Residents".  I left the 
band in early '87 because of a very strong presence (no names) in the band
that wanted everything to sound like chaos and noise.  Bands like the 
Residents and Butthole Surfers were perceived as 'very poppy and commercial'
!!!!  Those of us (most of us) believed that great ideas could be merged
with compositional ability and 'musicianship' without selling out.  It got to
the point where anything that was musical (even the idea of rehearsing itself)
or compositionally coherent was perceived as 'selling out'.

      If people like then it therefore must be bad?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

>From '87 to '90 VioSac discarded the idea of lyrics/singing to adopt
a more freeform approach.  The remaining members actually formed two
simultaneus versions with a slightly different lineup.  One version
would play virtually 100% improvised and decidedly noisy chaos while
the other version would play along with sequencer or tape with a 
somewhat more rehearsed and strict outlook.

A few great cassettes and an lp.  I regret not recording the 1986 version
of the band because succesive versions of the band not only sounded way
different but also never played any of the old songs.  OOPs.  We did 
actually record one tune.  It was a 9 minute version of Windy (the 60's
song by The Association) for a compilation of strange remakes called
"THe New Originals".  We recorded 5 different versions of the song from
clean to heavy to incredibly strange along with pyschobabble about the
meaning of the song.  They were all edited together to form a huge
melange of version after version after version.

The guitarist and the synthesist formed a band called Steal This Book 
a couple of years ago.  I had the pleasure of digitally mastering their
5 song ep a couple of months ago.   YOW! Great Stuff!!!!!

ferenc


From galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!torn!skule.ecf!payne Tue Sep  8 08:32:03 EDT 1992
Article: 14431 of rec.music.industrial
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!torn!skule.ecf!payne
From: payne@ecf.toronto.edu (PAYNE DENISE JOYCE)
Subject: death of an rmi membership
Message-ID: 
Reply-To: sizone!ken@ee.ryerson.ca
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 06:57:50 GMT
Lines: 154
Status: RO


This probably sounds sappy as hell.
 
I know I've been one of the main instigators here, but I have gotten around to 
posting some useful information. 

Next thing you know, some people are calling other people poseurs for posting
their record label's address, their label's catalog, tour schedules for bands
they're promoting that are of direct interest according to the charter
of this group to this group, etc. People are saying they want to listen
to "hard industrial" and that "Neubauten" isn't industrial, etc.
 
I dont see a point in posting anything helpful which isnt directly related
to Nine Inch Nails, Ministry, KMFDM, TKK and Severed Heads. This might seem
like a large range of styles, but it sure isnt, and isnt what industrial
is about. Not in my book. 

But in this paragraph it is. At this second, to me, that IS industrial. And
that is ALL what industrial is about. Nothing more. Genesis P-Orrige and
"Industrial" records no longer has anything to do with "industrial" as it
is represente in this group. Cabaret Voltaire has little to do with industrial
as it is defined here only because of their latest work, but, for example,
_Voice Of America_ has NOTHING to do with RMI.
 
In fact, _CITY SLAB HORROR_ has nothing to do with RMI. _CUISINE_ has
everything to do with it. FOETUS has NOTHING to do with RMI, but Clint Ruin
and Lydia Lunch's _DONT FEAR THE REAPER_ has everything to do with it.

Exclude :Zoviet France:, Lustmord, Boyd Rice (for he is an asshole), Laibach,
SPK (except their last LP, and their incarnation as TGT), Neubauten. Include
NIN, Ministry, KMFDM, Nitzer Ebb, Front 242, Front Line Assembly, and if you
keep your ears closed enough, admit Puppy, but not side 2 of Last Rites.
Admit Intermix and the latest Tack>>Head. Admit every softening of the
original incarnations of industrial into recyclable pop pap, to sell as
idealistic individualism for the non-individual with a lacking identity.
 
Admit heavy attitude here as well, and extract all forms of informing, 
expressing and communication. Exhume knowledge of the roots of a scene from
the crypt, for they should be stored elsewhere. Reinject that hole with
"With Sympathy", coupled with a chuckle, and dance to Over the Shoulder.
 
Extract anyone who is interested in disseminating information about the old
non-major lable dance bands, for they are the real poseurs and far to elite
to be listened to. What can they know? I come from a heavy metal background
I know what is shit when I hear it, Mufti. I know when Trent dies the group
mourns, then sighs in relief of his life, for a founding member of our 
culture has not passed away. Who would ensure the life of the founding
ideals of Nine Inch Nails?
 
Enough. But it is all true. There used to be real information on here, but
there is no longer. As soon as anyone mentions anything that the more
reactionary and less musically informed (IMNSHO _only_, not) deem unimportant,
they dont let it pass by for those interested to read, but pollute the thread
with calls of "poseur". Zorn is now a poseur.
 
hasta's right. I am one of the flamers here, but before I started there was
no information past the Severed Heads thread, the Negativland thread and
a few much smaller others. There's not even any point in posting anything
which I thought might truly be useful. Even now I await follow-up flames
for posting the Crash Worship tour schedule for being a poseur. So be it.
 
Yep, I'm not bothering with this anymore. Its a waste of my time. Its fun
to flame away incessantly, but this group is otherwise a waste of time. Like
a videogame. Fun, til you bore, but in the meantime it usually teaches
nothing. And mebbe I had something to offer, but I dare not encourage further
bandwidth wasteage by posting poseur material which I've otherwise
promised. 
 
Hearty sorry to those who were genuinely interested in what I have to send
here. I have very little actually, only 4 or 5 megs of about 4 years of
a few mailing lists as well as other media articles. Not much, but I know
it inside out so I can get to it quick, with cross-references just cause
I know what there is. 4 or 5 megs, mebbe 1400 or so files, but I am sure
there's something for everyone in there, and I can find it. Or I was
willing. Now there's no point.
 
To be fair, those that are interested just reply (email) to this post and
ask anything you want, and I will give you the info and send you the files.
I've set up the reply-to so it works right.
 
Lastly, I give up my hold on the word industrial. It means nothing at all.
Like rock and roll means nothing really anymore, except in uselessly vague
terms. I supposed this happens to all musical styles. Classical means
alot now too, too much. But I havent been around listening to classical
since it started and getting a bit alienated by new composers who come along
and try to call their works classical when its only been around as a style
for 5 years and the rest has for 400. Oh this gets close to the "whats new
and whats not debate", so I wont go further, but you get my drift. 

Newsgroups are not a place for serious discussion in anything which is not
an endeavour of hard fact. Way too much discipline is required for the
readers, or moderation to enforce it. Or a severely low readership of hardcore
fans. Alt.thrash thusly has no such troubles.

Good luck to those who wish to try and continue this group, I think it was
dead from the start. There are alternates for anyone truly interested. I
informed you of one above, person to person mail. Try it.
 
All the Matthew Neil Sharp's of this group are too much for it as well. Be
I one of them, I havent seen ONE MUSICALLY HELPFUL post from Matt and I've
made a few at least. He may say he's turned over a new leaf, but he's gonna
need a new tree at this rate. (Isnt this the fourth incarnation Matt?) Same
goes for FC9's ridiculousness. At least he showed a spark of original
interest, but communication was too hard, cause he got too much line
noise on his modem or something.
 
I'm turning over the best leaf and just leaving. Oh I know you dont all care at all, so its
great for al of us. Oh this is really sappy, but I wont be here for the
follow up postings. May you laugh amongst yourselves, cursed with eternal
bandwidth wasteage in your own group flaming eachother and not communicating. 

The clincher for all this, I must be fair, is not because of someone one
(on) this list at all, but rather by a type of person who I think exists here
in numbers.
 
Story: I go to the industrial video show that we are blessed with here by
Chris Twomey. (Those in TO who didnt go, blahaha! it was great. and I
did post about it.)
 
So isnt this great? It even shows videos by hype pop bands like Ministry
and KMFDM. So four fucking RMI-typical (oh, they _ARE!_) assholes are
there and as Nick Cave recites some most excellent prose, while Love Of
Life belts out the gospel according to Roli & cohorts while massively furious
stills flash on the screen like a trip through a demented art gallery, while
Mayuko Hino blasts us with incredibly pure noise generated by her fragile
body slamming instruments into submission... these ASSHOLES are yelling
shit like "FUCK THIS BULLSHIT! LETS SEE SOME NINE INCH FUCKING NAILS!" "GIVE
US TRENT! WE WANT TRENT!" "MORE MINISTRY!" "PEARL JAM! FUCK NICK CAVE AND
HIS INTELLECTUAL BULLSHIT! WE WANT PEARL JAM!".
 
I thought it was great cause they actually left when they didnt get what
they asked for, and instead had to sit through a huge slew of videos that
will never see the light of day on MTV or MUCH or anywhere else on any major
networks worldwide. And these people incited in me such an incredibly 
STRONG image of what RMI is really about that I dont want to be here.
 
To those assholes at the Rivoli last night: I hope you learned somethuing
for your $6 and enjoyed yourselves. I am sure you are on this list, cause
I've seen you post. Fuck you. Have your own opinions, but you didnt have
to ruin the show, and this newsgroup, for everyone else.
 
Anyway, its been fun, if not uninforming. Enough whining, you have what
you want now.
 
By the way, the hardest industrial is by a band called Guns N Roses. That
Neubauten stuff is pretentious bullshit. Get the GNR instead. It rules. Ask
Blixa.
 
/kc
Ken Chase
sizone!ken@ee.ryerson.ca
via payne@ecf.toronto.edu
 ()
-- 


From galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!stanford.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!versyss!keithd Thu Sep 17 14:34:38 EDT 1992
Article: 14844 of rec.music.industrial
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!stanford.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!versyss!keithd
From: keithd@versyss.com (Keith Doyle)
Subject: Zoviet France/PGR/Misc
Reply-To: keithd@versyss.UUCP (Keith Doyle)
Organization: VERSYSS Incorporated, Torrance, California
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 18:25:53 GMT
Message-ID: <1992Sep16.182553.4729@versyss.com>
Lines: 174
Status: RO


Various Ambient-Industrial reviews by Keith Doyle:

First, a bit about my tastes to try to put things in perspective, I like
a wide spectrum of things from Speed Thrash to Beefheart to Jackie Gleason.
I don't particularly like much of anything in the category of country music
and most folk music leaves me yawning.  But there is quite a bit in the 
categories of Classical, Jazz, Punk, Big Band, Blues, that I find 
interesting, though almost none of it is mainstream.

What for me is a common thread running through these interests, is
the unusual, the unpolished, and that-which-doesn't-take-itself-too-
seriously.  I think it helps to show a little of a sense of humor and
not too much polish, or it becomes too pretentious, and for me, 
egotistical and boring.

Most recently, I've been searching out those hard to find ambient-
industrial releases.  Since that does seem to fit within the apparent
direction of this group, I'll review some of these in particular.
Hit 'j' now if you don't give a shit about ambient-industrial anyway....

Zoviet France ----------------------------------------------------------

In general, I'd say these guys are mostly ambient, not quite Music
Concrete, though I can kind of compare them with Nurse With Wound in a 
way, but to say that NWW is definately Music Concrete, with no sense of 
any rhythm (not a complaint, just an observation) while Zoviet France does 
seem to maintain some sense of rhythm, though not enough that I'd call it 
a "beat".  One source for this rhythm on the CD "Look Into Me" however, 
is a little too much tendency to rely on an echo configured for about a 
one second delay time.  Some of it sounds a little too much like the first 
time you ever played with a microphone hooked up to an echo.

Their use of electronics beyond delay/echo and pitch-shift seems minimal,
mostly source sounds seem to be natural, or at least could pass for
natural in the context of  the processing that is being performed.  Perhaps 
these guys are similar to Strafe Fr who seem to make a point of noting 
that only natural sounds are used on their works.

Eostre - I didn't spend as much time revisiting this CD as the other two
Zoviet France ones I have, primarily due to the fact that the one responder
to my message about a discography has this one already and doesn't need
the review, but for the benefit of other potentially interested parties,
in comparison to the other two CDs (reviewed below) this one has a little 
more of that  "factory" ambience that I personally like, than either of the
other two, though the Garista CD has a lot to offer (more below).  Eostre 
contains 12 pieces for a total of about 70 minutes.  Not quite as slow and 
drifting as Look Into Me, and at least for me, Eostre is somewhat the
better for it.


Look Into Me - This CD contains 14 pieces (I hesitate to call them
songs) most of them about 4 minutes long except for Cair Camouflet which
is 24 minutes:

1. Cair Camouflet
2. Levenswitch
3. At The Moment
4. Fidgety Foot
5. Low Creeper
6. Second Sight
7. Deekintaemae
8. Kess Saffer Plaint
9. Melangell
10. Look Into Me
11. Scatter
12. Kinto-Me
13. Amadan
14. Surge

Cair Camouflet consists of overlaying loops of a variety of primarily
natural sounds, over the 24 minutes there are several dreamy soft sections 
interleaved with somewhat noiser sections that remind me of the persistant
droning of a vacuum cleaner in the next room, or other semi-distant
appliances.

Amadan has a somewhat middle eastern feel, sort of a mild "Muslimgauze"
percussion.

Low Creeper and Melangell use a vocal track-- kind of eerie moaning-
howling sounds pitch shifted up a little giving it just enough of that
chipmunk effect which is probably the source of much of its eerieness.
Probably my favorite two on this CD.

The weakest ones in my opinion are two or three that utilize a couple of
semi-intelligible words caught up in an echo loop-- repetitive and not
particularly interesting, but on the whole I found the CD worthwhile, and
somewhat similar to Eostre though with less machine-ambience, though I
would say this CD is the weakest of the three I'm reviewing here.  A 
reasonable amount of variation contained therein, (if you ignore the 
overuse of the echo).

Garista

This one is somewhat angrier and noisier than either Eostre or Look Into
Me, and it is also notably shorter, the CD is only 40 minutes long:

1. Scrama Mdags
2. Mosbas
3. Mama Piss
4. Nruknesh
5. Caarcuraz
6. M1 M1 M1
7. Rangmabasm

I thought Mama Piss was particularly notable for its use of primarily
vocal sounds, multiple wailing/laughing, gargling voices, some pitch
shifted down to give it that slowed-down-bass feel.  Aimless vocalising,
some sound like mindless asylum residents of some kind mixed with 
partigoers, combined with noises, drones, etc.

Garista is my favorite (at least this week) of the three Zoviet France 
CD's I have, its somewhat less subtle approach and greater variation
and sense of humor kept my attention a little more.


PGR ----------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know much about the history of PGR, though I picked up an LP
or two over the years, PGR reportedly stands for Poison Gas Research.

The Chemical Bride -  This apparently is the latest release, Tower Records
on Sunset in L.A. has about 15 copies in their "import" section, apparently
its expected to move reasonably well, and I'm not surprised, this one
is currently at the top of my favorites list.

Slow motion factory-machine ambience, kind of Eraserhead ambience though
not quite as sinister:

1. The Sound Wall  ~5 min
2. Headful of Blue Sun  ~8 min
3. The Data Egg   ~6 min
4. Oceanic and Atmospheric ~14 min
5. Sulfur (Flowers Sublimed) ~9 min
6. The Chemical Bride  ~8 min
7. Signalling Through the Flames ~5 min
8. Born Tying Knots ~9 min

"The Sound Wall" conjurs up the soft sound textures of a starship's engines 
 from inside the ship.

"Oceanic and Atmospheric" drifts in and out much like the ocean waves,
 but with a subtle machine ambience.  Most of the pieces seem to have
 a sort of ocean-white-noise soothing effect, but with plenty of character
 that keeps it interesting.  Not hard-edged steamhammer industrial (which
 I think can be good too) this one is the other end of the spectrum, but
 with a lot of interest.  I'd use the word "drone" except it seems so
 much more interesting in texture than that word connotes.

I'm pretty biased on this one because it works really well for me, there's
a good variety (within the machine-ambience I mentioned), not a clinker in 
the bunch.  If you like that sort of stuff, don't miss this one.

Released by Silent Records, if you like that, there are two samplers which
have some more PGR which are also pretty good and somewhat in the same
category, "Fetish" and "Grav".   Fetish also has some Arcane Device which
is in the same category, and Grav has some Merzbow and Asmus Tiechens which
is a little different.  Watch out for Merzbow, the example on Grav is pretty
darn noisy but by their standards, its mellow.  Most of Merzbow 
strikes me as inspired by Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" which is a 
Chinese Water Torture of high-pitched screetching and grinding that I
would think few people find listenable.  Even the example on Grav may be
hard to take for many people, even though it is light by Merzbow's
usual standards.  Asmus Tiechens is more interesting, somewhat like
Zoviet France, with more natural sounds than synthesized or machine-
like.

I have a lot of other stuff that is currently available which would
probably be good to review as well, but I'm finding it takes a little
longer to write a review than I had originally estimated, perhaps I'll
follow up in another week or so with more when I get the time.

Keith



From galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!stanford.edu!ames!pacbell.com!hoptoad!dante!mason Fri Oct  2 20:49:28 EDT 1992
Article: 15333 of rec.music.industrial
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!stanford.edu!ames!pacbell.com!hoptoad!dante!mason
From: mason@dante.uucp (Mason Jones)
Subject: Re: Hafler Trio info
Message-ID: <1992Sep28.162803.26856@dante.uucp>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:28:03 GMT
References: <69030@hydra.gatech.EDU>
Organization: Charnel House
Status: RO

gt5986c@prism.gatech.EDU (John P. Guske-Arnzen) writes:
: 
: a couple quick questions i'm ahoping that someone can answer for me about
: the Hafler Trio:
: 
: 1--	who is in the group?  someone listed this info about a year or
: 	so back but i wasn't listening to them then.  my loss, huh?

It was Dr Edward Moolenbeek, Chris Watson, and Andrew Mackenzie.  It
is now only Andrew.

: 2--	is there a connection with Cabaret Voltaire?

Only that Chris Watson was a member of CV when they were doing
interesting music.  He left, and later joined HT for a short period.

: 3--	does anyone have a COMPLETE discog of their work?  i keep finding
: 	stuff i've never heard mention of or listings for popping up on
: 	compilations and release lists [not to mention occasional finds
: 	at the neighborhood Tower recs].

I've never seen a complete listing; they released a large number of
limited items when they first started working.  A number of these are
now being re-issued by Mute and others.

: 4--	does anyone out there know a "classification" for their music?

Basically ambient experimental work, I'd say.

: 5--	has anyone seen the video of one of their performances [i'm not
: 	sure of the label, but they market fairly minimally covered 
: 	recordings of Laibach,PTV,CV, etc.]

Having seen then perform here, I'd have to say that blank videotape
would be more interesting than a video of one of their performances.

: 6--	and finally,  an address where i can order HT's albums [touch 
: 	or solielmoon, or wherever]

Soleilmoon; call (503) 621-3202 and have him send you a catalog.


  VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
             Mason Jones           Charnel House Productions
             P.O. Box 170277, San Francisco 94117-0277 U.S.A.
   ...{uunet,sun}!hoptoad!dante!mason   or   dante!mason@hop.toad.com
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-picayune.mit.edu!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!ghost.dsi.unimi.it!piovanel Fri Oct  2 22:10:41 EDT 1992
Article: 15403 of rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-picayune.mit.edu!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!ghost.dsi.unimi.it!piovanel
From: piovanel@ghost.dsi.unimi.it (marco piovanelli)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: INFO: Forthcoming Touch Releases
Summary: New Releases from Touch, October 1992
Keywords: Touch, The Hafler Trio, Willem de Ridder
Message-ID: <1992Oct1.113350.17965@ghost.dsi.unimi.it>
Date: 1 Oct 92 11:33:50 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dep. - Milan University
Lines: 110
Status: RO


   TOUCH AND MERZSTUECKE proudly announce:

   NEW RELEASES FROM TOUCH, OCTOBER 1992

   ----------------------------------------------------------------

*  The Hafler Trio
   MASTERY OF MONEY
   CD + 20pp booklet
   Touch {TO:18}

   OVER THE LAST ten years, the Hafler Trio have been developing
   an approach to sound that re-invents the idea of "ambient" --
   a genre that has become synonymous with a passive state of
   listening.  The Hafler Trio seek to empower, not placate.
   "It would seem, that still, after all these years, perception
   is essentially thought to be a passive process [...]"

   MASTERY OF MONEY is the Hafler Trio's most accessible recording
   to date.  This 75 minute compact disc is the sequel to the 1991
   release "Kill the King", encompassing such diverse subject
   matters as Scientology's 'deprogramming' techniques, to an 1857
   invention, 'The Vowel Flame', which showed how a regulated
   burner responded to different sounds.

   MASTERY OF MONEY will be available through RTM (APT/Backs) from
   October 19th, 1992.


*  Willem de Ridder & the Hafler Trio
   SNUFF
   Limited Edition CD + 32pp boolet
   Touch {SPL:2}
   Volume 2 in the Spiral magazine series
   Volume 1 in the Spoken Word series

   SNUFF CONTAINS TWO oral pieces and one musical interlude;
   'Snuff' by Willem de Ridder is followed by 'Projection' by the
   Hafler Trio, before a journey to the 'Isle of the Dead', also
   read by Willem de Ridder.  The booklet includes 'The End of the
   Graven Image' by William Levy & Willem de Ridder, 'Knitting
   with Fog without a Manual' by Andrew McKenzie and 'Oral
   Tradition' by Noritoshi Hirakawa & Willem de Ridder.

   RECORDED LIVE ON the shores of Corsica and in the 'Garden of
   the Dying' in Italy, Willem de Ridder tells a deadly story
   which by-passes the mind and reaches the core.  Enhanced by an
   intermezzo of the Hafler Trio's psycho-acoustic sound, the
   story is simple, but lethal.  Feel your body respond as your
   mind is 'snuffed'.

   WILLEM DE RIDDER was one of the first experimental sound
   recordist in the Netherlands, developing and organizing theatre,
   painting and exhibitions of art throughout Europe.
   Working in radio, TV and in the open air, no arena has been
   left untouched by him.  With Germaine Greer, Heathcote Williams,
   William Levy and Jim Haynes he founded SUCK, the first European
   sexpaper, and he went on to found the WET DREAM FESTIVAL, the
   first Erotic Film Festival in the world.  After a move to
   Hollywood he started RADIO CADILLAC, and later the first
   America's first reader-written paper, FINGER, a sexpaper.
   This became GOD, the ultimate in sexpapers.  De Ridder fled to
   the Netherlands after death threats and questions from the
   Manson family and the FBI.  At home he continued  to develop
   these themes, notably in LOVE, the sex magazine produces for the
   US market.  After his arrest for pornography he was chained to
   Annie Sprinkle and then moved with her to Italy.  A prolific
   and respected writer, story-teller and DJ, Willer de Ridder
   still flourishes in Italy, Amsterdam and New York, and is
   currently working on a series of cassettes for US radio with 
   Andrew McKenzie.


*  The Hafler Trio
   A THIRSTY FISH
   CD
   The Grey Area of Mute Records {KUT 6}

   THE GREY AREA of Mute Records is about to embark on the
   re-release of the Hafler Trio's vinyl output from 1984 to '87 --
   six CDs in all.  The first, due in October, is 'A Thirsty Fish',
   a double LP originally released in 1987, and is available from
   Touch.


*  TOUCH HAS ALSO just rereleased 'A Bag of Cats' {SPL:1},
   originally produced in 1989 as the first of the Spiral series.
   This edition has been redesigned with new writing from Andrew
   McKenzie.

   ----------------------------------------------------------------

   TOUCH
   13 Osward Road, London SW17 7SS, UK
   phone 081 767 2368
   fax   081 682 3414

   SOLEILMOON
   PO Box 83296, Portland, OR 97283
   phone (503) 621 3202
   fax   (503) 621 3248

   MERZSTUECKE PROPAGANDA DEPT 
   8 via Val di Fumo, 25100 Brescia (BS), ITALY

   TOUCH IS AN ASSOCIATED SOLEILMOON LABEL

   ALL (DIS-)INFORMATION ANTI(C) 1992 MERZSTUECKE
   STD DISCLAIMERS (DO NOT) APPLY


From galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-picayune.mit.edu!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!ogicse!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!ash50842 Fri Oct  2 22:19:33 EDT 1992
Article: 15426 of rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-picayune.mit.edu!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!ogicse!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!ash50842
From: ash50842@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dres)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Throbbing Gristle at Oundle School
Message-ID: 
Date: 1 Oct 92 18:49:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BvGHMG.D2D
Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 17
Status: RO


   I just rented out the video for the recording of Heather Earth and the
Throbbing Gristle performance, live at Oundle School.  The Oundle thing
has be puzzled.
   First of all, maybe I just dont know a lot about British schools, but
it seems VERY odd that a school would let a group that was probably very
contraversial at the time play at the school.
   And second, the kids LOVED TG!  Maybe they were just exciting about having
a concert at their school (I have no idea how well known TG was at that time).
Anyway, most kids I know are listening to the New Kids on the Block, and would
probably positively HATE TG.  Hell, *I* would have hated TG when I was 12
years old.  British kids' can't be THAT much different.

   So, I figure "something must be going on here, that I don't know about" (
Suicidal Tendencies quote) perhaps one of you will know what it is!

-Dres


From galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-beacon!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!ugle.unit.no!news.uit.no!thostr Fri Oct 16 21:59:53 EDT 1992
Article: 16039 of rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-beacon!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!ugle.unit.no!news.uit.no!thostr
From: thostr@stud.cs.uit.no (Thomas Strandenaes)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Skinny Puppy Sample Sources
Keywords: Skinny Puppy Sample Sources
Message-ID: <1992Oct15.191253.19921@news.uit.no>
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:12:53 GMT
References: <1992Oct14.152036.7790@wri.com>
Sender: news@news.uit.no (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
Lines: 601
Status: RO

This is the Skinny Puppy sample file that appeared
on this group some time ago:

Skinny Puppy Sample Identification File                    Feb. 6. 1992
Compiled by Dean Herman, Paul Moore, Ken Chasse, [your name here], etc.
Changes?  Additions?  Threats?  Clues?  Write gibsonlp@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bites/Remission

FILM
   [0:32] Survival after death
   [0:56] (no idea) [Same voice as [0:32] ]

SMOTHERED HOPE
   [0:22] How could you do such things?
          Charlie, in Hitchcock's "Shadow of a Doubt"
   [4:39] The worlds a hell; what does it matter what happens in it?
          Uncle Charlie, in Hitchcock's "Shadow of a Doubt"
   [5:00] Electric chair... [Same voice as [4:39] ]
          Uncle Charlie, in Hitchcock's "Shadow of a Doubt"

GLASS HOUSES
   [0:00] The beauty of their souls...The sweetness of their
          characters live on with us forever.
          Unknown, in a eulogy, from "Shadow of a Doubt"

FAR TOO FRAIL
   [2:00] They're alive! They're human beings!
          Charlie, in Hitchcock's "Shadow of a Doubt"
   [2:02] For years some people have argued that this kind of
          pornography is a matter of artistic creativity.
          [Ex-Pres Reagan, my best guess]
   [3:15] (no idea)

SLEEPING BEAST
   [2:46] ...will be millions of corpses. A twenty megaton bomb
          on Boston in 1962 was estimated to have created
          2.2 million corpses.
   [3:10] There'll be nobody. And after the missile hits;
          everything will be gone. [Same voice as [2:46] ]

GLASS OUT
   [3:16] The beauty of their souls...The sweetness of their
          characters live on with us forever.
          Unknown, in a eulogy, from "Shadow of a Doubt"

BRAP
   [0:19] You cannot hurt me you fool! I am not one of you!
          Count Dracula, from And Warhol's "Dracula"
   [0:33] (assorted screams start) [Same as [0:19] ?]

ASSIMILATE (R-23)
   [2:02] Is it safe?
   [3:22] Is it safe?!
          Sir Lawrence Oliver, from the movie "Marathon Man"
   [4:04] We've got the taste!
          [Ken Chasse suggests that this was taken from a Pepsi
          commercial from the mid-1980's.]

BLOOD ON THE WALL
   [1:09] It's me...Stella, your friend Stella. Don't you recognize me?
          Stella, from the movie "The Tennant"
   [1:17] (cool screams, man)
   [1:27] (sounds of another conversation, but screams drown it out)
   [2:26] I see. Do you see? They say: "it's just old man"
          Come, do you laugh at an old man? It's him that laughs.

ICE BREAKER
   [0:01] Welcome to my house. I'm delighted you could come.
          I'm certain you will find your stay here most
          illuminating. Think of me as your unseen servant,
          and believe that during your stay here I shall be
          with you in spirit. May you find the answer that
          you seek. It is here, I promise you. And now,
          aufweiderzein.
          Emeric Belasco's voice on an old record player, in
          the movie "The Legend of Hell House"

THE CHOKE (REGRIP)
   [0:08] If you cut off my head, where would I stay?
          Me in my, me in my head, or me in my body?
   [2:15] Take out my stomach, my kidneys. Assuming that
          were possible. And I say "Me and my intestines."
   [3:05] Would I have my head call itself?
          Roman Polanski, from the movie "The Tennant"

BASEMENT
   [1:27] I don't know you people. Why are you here? It does no good.
          Nothing changes,  nothing. Get out or I'll hurt you.
          I can't help myself! I dont want to hurt you.
          (mumble) Get out of this house before I kill you all!
          Emeric Belasco talking through Florence Tanner, a
          spiritualist, in the movie "The Legend of Hell House"
   [2:30] Drug addiction, alcoholism, sadism, beastiality,
          mutilation, murder, vampirism, necrophilia, cannibalism,
          not to mention a gamut of sexual goodies.
          B.J. Fischer, explaining what went on in Hell House, from
          the movie "The Legend of Hell House"

LAST CALL
   [0:05] I want you...the fact is you
   [0:08] Those who argue (repeated throughout song)
   [0:09] Damn well kill ya
   [0:10] ?
   [1:10] (something in left channel)
   [5:22] you're so crazy... (repeats)

Not on the Bites/Remission CD release, but on the Bites LP:

CHURCH
   [0:01] Church in hell.
          Dr. Lionel Barrett, in "The Legend of Hell House"

LOVE
   [0:38] Drunk, clutching, sweating, biting.  All together,
          naked, drunk, clutching, sweating, biting.
   [1:19] Touch me, touch me or I'll find somebody who will!
          An intoxicated Ann Barrett, hitting on Fischer, in the
          movie "The Legend of Hell House"
   [1:40] I love you too.
          Dr. Lionel Barrett after he saw his wife with Fischer, in
          the movie "The Legend of Hell House"



VIVIsectVI

VX GAS ATTACK
   [0:13] "Welcome to the morning news..." Sounds like Nivek Ogre
          reading something about a battle in which chemical
          weapons were used.

          A Time magazine article I read quoted the speaker for the
          Iranian Parliment as saying things like "We will not remain
          idle forever...we have the technology to produce chemical
          weapons...there are limits to our patience."

   [0:33] Ritual murders [...repeats]
   [1:03] Bethlehem

WHO'S LAUGHING NOW
   [0:38] Who's laughing now?
          Ash, from the movie "Evil Dead II"
   [1:20] I hope you rot down there!
          Bobby Jo, from the movie "Evil Dead II"
   [2:26] May God forgive me for what I have unleashed onto this Earth
          Father, on a tape recording, from the movie "Evil Dead II"
   [3:26] We are the things were and shall be again
          Jake, while posessed, from the movie "Evil Dead II"

TESTURE
   [3:44] I hope you make sure we're properly dead before you
          start old rip-beak!
          Snitter (voice of John Hurt), from the movie "Plague Dogs"
   [3:51] Better we die here than in the whitecoats' tank, its
          little enough dignity we've got left
          Rowf (voice of Christopher Benjamin), from the movie "Plague Dogs"

STATE AID
   [0:01] ...if that doesn't quite answer your question
          U.S. Ex-Pres Reagan?
   [0:09] ...state...[Beginning of below]
   [1:02] ...state of aids...
   [1:23] chemical meat

HOSPITAL WASTE

FRITTER (STELLA'S HOME)
   [0:02] (something, with background music)
   [0:00] I'm so happy...
   [1:17] I'll fight, I'll fight to the bitter end...
   [1:50] (something) ...specialize...
   [2:11] You're mine now forever...
   [2:14] Your friend, Stella. Don't you recognize me?
          Stella, from the movie "The Tenant"
   [3:25] It's ok, he saw it on the television
          Jack, from the movie "The Shining"

YES HE RAN
   [0:22] ? [silence? Female voice]
   [0:23] anywhere
   [6:25] Silence. [Sounds like clear version of above]

PUNK IN PARK ZOO'S
   [0:31] ...punk rockers...in park zoo's
   [0:52] ...today I have chosen you as the...
   [1:55] ...here is... [Very quiet, may be something else]

THE SECOND OPINION
   [0:00] It is... [Seems to use the same source as in "Epilogue"
          From Cleanse Fold and Manipuilate]
   [0:18] That machine has got to be destroyed!
          Unknown, from the movie "From Beyond"


Cleanse Fold And Manipulate

FIRST AID
   [4:17] ...than they do up here...he's doing ok so far, but just
          wait...it's very uncomfortable, very difficult for him...

ADDICTION
   [1:46] (moaning in right channel begins)
   [1:54] Oh..I'll be alright.
   [1:58] ...your type? [woman, same as above?]
   [2:31] My god [Man, but _really_ reaching here...]
   [4:56] ?
   [5:22] Whats the mater with me? [This voice carries on but
          whatever is said is too quiet to identify]
   [5:54] Excuse me miss? [Man]
   [5:55] Yes? [Woman]

SHADOW CAST
   [0:00] live on fear..they live on fear (repeats)
          Unknown, from the movie "Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2"
   [0:22] You got that last slaughter on tape, you play it on
          the radio [Also at [3:39] ]
          Unknown, from the movie "Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2"
   [0:54] [Something in the right channel]
   [3:46] Sabbath [Really stretching it here, too]
   [5:52] Every Friday, Saturday [Female, sounds like an ad]
   [4:00] ...dog eat dog world and where I've been, there just
          ain't enough damn dogs.
          Unknown, from the movie "Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2"

DRAINING FACES
   [0:03] You'll forgive me if I don't stay around to watch...
          I just can't cope with freaky stuff.
   [1:15] Dementia... [Echo, other assorted things I can't
          identify. Sounds like major delay feedback. Is this
          Russian? Latin?]
   [2:26] [Something unlike the voice above. I'm sorry?]

   Yeah, spot the lyrics, too. Geez...Until I got the CD with
   notes, I never thought there WERE any lyrics to this noise
   symphony.

SECOND TOOTH
   [2:05] [Screaming, moans. Non-SP?]

TEAR OR BEAT
   [1:53] ...they don't know when to stop, and when they don't know
          when to stop... that's why they have to be stopped...
          [More, but can't make it out]
   [4:12] [Something, ends at [4:15], two distinct segments of vocals]

deep down
TRAUMA HOUNDS
   [0:02] I don't want to talk about it. [Male #1]
   [0:15] I haven't given it a second thought. [Same voice as above]
   [0:33] I don't know... [Female? Quiet.]
   [1:01] I don't know... [Male]
   [1:19] ...it's more probable, more rational
   [1:35] Hello?
   [2:22] ...mortem report doesn't change a thing you client is in
          jail, he'll stay there!
   [2:36] [Female, panicked, can't make it out]
   [2:44] ...poison!
   [3:11] You can look at a thing like that as evidence of 
          instability and possible suicide. [Male]
   [3:48] Not only ...challenge... [Female?]
   [4:14] He was the only friend I had. [Female]

ANGER
   [0:10] [Various things as though said through a megaphone
          with reverb added. Can't make them out.]
   [2:15] [Actual singing from...?]
   [2:55] Hi... (repeats)
   [3:26] Fresh breath (repeats)
   [3:44] [Sounds like something swiped from a gothic soundtrack?]

   Quite a lot of small samples going on here. This is another
   wall of sound song to me, so I'm only mentioed the few very
   distinct parts.

EPILOGUE
   [0:26] Showing a man whose face has been battered, whose body
          has been scourged back and front, whose head has been
          crowned with thorns, whose has been crucified and had
          his side pierced. It is my opinion that the man of the
          shroud...is Jesus Christ.
   [0:55] Five five five four three two one
          [Maybe not exactly that, but something of a countdown is
          heard in the left channel leading up to the grating noise
          at [1:00] and...if nothing else, the "one" is quite clear
          to me.]


Mind: The Perpetual Intercourse (Not complete)

STAIRS AND FLOWERS (Not complete)

   [0:00] Those apple trees are really sickly, look, the fruit's
          all deformed. Even the flowers are ugly, and look at the
          foundation, it's enormous! It's too big for this house,
          like, some other kind of building stood here originally.
          That's strange, isn't it?  It could support a castle.

          Laura Esterman, playing the character of Carol, in a radio
          adaptation of Karl Edward Wagner's short story, "Sticks".
          This was made by ZBS Media as part of their "Cabinet of
          Doctor Fritz" series, and is in a binaural format.
          Cool story, BTW.


BURNT WITH WATER

   [0:30] [.?.] basic doctine. I don't want you to [.?.] because
          you've got a more important job as mother, and that is
     o    [.?.] see that they're born again, and you can do more
     n    in the home than you can do in the pulpit. So stay out
          of the pulpit and let someone else take care of that..
     a    Because you brought a sinner into the world, and thats
     n    all that you brought into the world. When I came into the
     d    world...[?]...thats all, thats...[.?.] came into the world,
          just another sinner. Now friends, thats the great message I
     o    believe [.?.] I thinks that thats the thing God is trying
     f    to get to with you and me today and thats the reason I say
     f    that we could get back to the great basic fundamental,
          elemental... today...foundation and if we could get anchored
     t    on these things ...[.?.]... psychology... [.?.]...and you
     o    don't need to see it either way, for that matter. Before
          we broke away in chapter twelve. Now we come to chapter
   [2:33] thirteen, and the fact of the matter is [.?.]

          Unknown, but he sounds like a televangelist I see on a local
          cable station. Very spooky.

   [2:48] Special [.?.] only to records conversation.

   [2:53] We may ask what is [.?.] Anything beyond that is [.?.] He is
          a liar, the demon is a liar. They like to confuse us. He will
          also mix lies with the truth, to attack us. For the attack is
          psychological...the power is an elixer...do not [?] it

   [3:22] Do you know what she did? Your [.?.] daughter?

   [4:04] (scream) It burns! (scream) Please...

   [4:30] Who are you?

   [4:36] No..please...(screams)

   [4:58] [Sounds like a priest performing an exorcism, but
          can't make out three words in a row.]

   [7:34] Amen.

   [7:35] Lord, hear my prayer..

          Note: The exorcism material is from "The Exorcist" so people
          say. I haven't rented and scrutinized it yet.

LOVE
   [0:38] Drunk, clutching, sweating, biting.  All together,
          naked, drunk, clutching, sweating, biting.
   [1:19] Touch me, touch me or I'll find somebody who will!
          An intoxicated Ann Barrett, hitting on Fischer, in the
          movie "The Legend of Hell House"
   [1:40] I love you too.
          Dr. Lionel Barrett after he saw his wife with Fischer, in
          the movie "The Legend of Hell House"

200 YEARS
   [0:05] Whats wrong with you? Whats wrong with everybody in this
          crazy place!?  Answer me! Talk! Can't you move!? Answer me!
   [0:44] Well, any ideas professor?
   [0:49] Well, I suppose it could be some sort of...delusion.
   [0:56] Maybe we're being made to think and hear what we hope
          to find...besides this town is (?home)
   [1:04] No...no, thats all wrong...this is more than 200 years
          ahead of our time.
   [1:37] Answer me! Talk! Can't you move? Answer me!
   [2:09] I don't blame the judges, you're the prettiest of them all.
          But tell me something, your majesty...Whats wrong with you?
          Whats wrong with everybody in this crazy place!?
   [2:44] (no idea)
          Male voice
   [3:05] (no idea)
          Female voice
   [3:47] Second/seventh story tower for the (professional?) who...
          Unknown, sounds like an ad.
   [4:01] (no idea)
   [4:07] You mean there are other sections?

          The majority of the samples come from a Twilight Zone episode
          called 'Elegy' which is about three astronauts who find a world
          frozen in time, which turns out to be a mortuary.

DIG IT
   [4:50] Do you hear that? The music! A band! Do you hear it?
          There's somebody here!
          An astronaut, from the Twilight Zone episode 'Elegy'

CHAINSAW
   [2:07] The world's greatest mortuary.
          The mortuary caretaker, from the Twilight Zone episode 'Elegy'
   [4:48] To everlasting...eternal peace.
          The mortuary caretaker, from the Twilight Zone episode 'Elegy'

--
From: ballerup@diku.dk (Per Goetterup)


                         Deepdown Trauma Hounds
      The remix version from the CD Mind: The Perpetual Intercourse

   [0:00] I don't wanna talk about it!
          Male #1
   [0:01] ...A wee bit small, but it'll have to do
          Evil Scientist (tm) from "Night Mare Hare"
   [0:13] I haven't given it a second thought...
          Male #1
   [0:26] Oh dear...
          Evil Scientist (tm) from "Night Mare Hare"
   [0:31] Yeah, I don't know
          Female #1
   [0:36] Come...
          Evil Scientist (tm) from "Night Mare Hare"
   [0:42] There is a rabbit loose in the castle, monster
          Evil Scientist (tm) from "Night Mare Hare"
   [0:59] Brief scream followed by "I don't know"
          Male #2
   [1:17] ...it's more probable, more rational
          Male #2
   [1:32] Hello?
          Male
   [1:44] This is mine
          Male #2
   [1:58] Now I got your skin... covered ... come back before I hurt you...
          fuzzy dialogue from "Night Mare Hare"
   [2:19] ..mortem report doesn't change a thing. Your
          client is in jail, he'll stay there!"
          Male #1
   [2:26] Move
          Evil Scientist (tm) from "Night Mare Hare"
   [2:32] ...oh what do you...
          Female (panicked)
   [2:41] ...poison...
          Male
   [2:45] Sound effects from "Night Mare Hare"
   [3:08] You can look at a thing like that as evidence of
          instability and possible suicide
          Male #1
   [4:06] Never send a monster to do the work of an Evil Scientist
          Evil Scientist (tm) from "Night Mare Hare"
   [4:22] Sound effects, probably from "Night Mare Hare"
   [4:26] Not only did he challenge you...
          Female
   [4:31] Ah?
          Evil Scientist (tm) from "Night Mare Hare"
   [4:35] Are you dead?
          Evil Scientist (tm) from "Night Mare Hare"
   [4:45] Music from "Night Mare Hare"
   [5:16] Same as [3:08]
   [5:36] Sound effect from "Night Mare Hare"
   [5:40] He was the only friend I had
          Female
   [6:12] Same as [4:06]
   [6:27] Same as [5:36]
   [6:30] Same as [4:26]
   [6:36] Come back here you rabbit
          Evil Scientist (tm) from "Night Mare Hare"
   [6:49] Same as [5:36] and [6:27]
   [6:56] Same as [5:40]
   [7:01] Sound effect #2 from "Night Mare Hare"
   [7:17] Running water sound effect from "Night Mare Hare"
   [7:19] Hah! Huh? Where? What? When? Why? How? Who? ... Oh. ... Phew!!
          Bugs Bunny from "Night Mare Hare"
   [7:30] Stay tuned for more...
          Male tv announcers voice

          "Night Mare Hare" is a Bugs Bunny cartoon.  Some of the other
          material sounds like something from Perry Mason.


Rabies

RODENT
   [0:26] What came back to Earth was a great rock and roll band

HEXONXONX
   [0:04] (something)...I am clean! (x3) (laughter)
   [3:26] ...I summon thee...creature of darkness
   [3:30] Be prepared to enter a world stranger than you have ever imagined
          Unknown, from a documentary called "The Occult Experience"
   [3:36] By the power of darkness, I summon thee creature of hatred
   [3:45] There is no way to penetrate this barrier, it has the strength
          of a million souls, the power of the dead
   [3:54] By the power of hatred, I...I summon thee creature of waste!
   [4:19] ...come..[?]...darkness come forth and show yourself!

FASCIST JOCKITCH
   [0:20] Jesus wept
          Frank, from the movie "Hellraiser"
   [1:22] Fornicator...fornicator!...(something)...religious bitch!
   [3:04] Brother(s) should be close, don't you think?
          ? played by Michael Ironside, from the movie "Scanners"

WORLOCK
   [0:27] Now is the only thing that's real...The police used to
          watch over the people, now they're watching the people.
          Charles Manson's "Lie" album?
   [3:13] Do you don't you want me to make you, its coming down fast
          but dont let it break you...tell me tell me tell me the
          answer you may be a lover but you aint no dancer...
          Helter Skelter, by The Beatles

TIN OMEN
   [0:16] All good people are asleep and dreaming

RIVERS
   [0:02] Let's get things nice and sparkling clean.
          Alex, from the movie "A Clockwork Orange"
   [0:07] It's part of the new way.
          Georgie, from the movie "A Clockwork Orange"
   [0:10] This conversation can serve no purpose anymore...
          I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take
          a stress pill, and think things over.
          HAL 9000, from the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey"

   [0:25] Something extremely nasty, yes yes?
          P. R. Deltoid, from the movie "A Clockwork Orange"

   [0:29] In the course of the centuries [.?.]. As brooks flow into
          streams, streams into rivers, and rivers into the sea,
          so on and [.?.] swell our ranks soon we shall be
          victorious, triumphant [.?.] we shall await our coming
          as Autumn awaits Winter.
          Ferdy Wayne, from the movie "The Fearless Vampire Killers"

   [0:59] New way, whats this about a new way?
          Alex, from the movie "A Clockwork Orange"

   [1:04] My mind is going, I can feel it.
          HAL 9000, from the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey"

   [1:10] Do you know what is really obscene?

   [1:14] Look at him, almost an old man, with his bloody self-instinctive
          (somthing) of dog-like devotion with [.?.] under his protection.
          Look, well it is them, who secreted another girl more closer in
          the minds of all these girls...
   [1:32] Shut up!
          [.?.] see how he [.?.] it's so thoughtful! I must leave you know.
          See you later gentlemen. Meditate while awaiting your turn, for it
          would be extremely difficult for you to get away from here, unless
          of course you have wings, like a bat.
          Ferdy Wayne, from the movie "The Fearless Vampire Killers"

   [2:10] Is it interesting? [Female]
   [2:11] What? [Male]
   [2:13] Did you find anything interesting? [Female]

   [2:21] It can only be attributable to human error...this sort
          of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been
          due to human error
          HAL 9000, from the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey"

   [2:40] [.?.]...I can't stop now, though.

   [2:49] He displeased me as much this evening as impressed
          me the first time.

   [2:56] I've lost all critical perspective.
          Dave[?], from the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey"

   [3:00] (belch,laugh) Don't you laugh, damn you, don't you laugh!
          Preacher (name?), from the movie "A Clockwork Orange"

   [3:09] I'm afraid.
          HAL 9000, from the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey"

   [3:14] [But/when] my father beats me for watching TV. He says I
          have no respect.

   [3:22] Yeah, I tell him not to watch so much TV.

   [3:24] Don't listen to him, 'cause I got a show.

   [3:28] No respect.
          [A few of the above could all be the same speaker, don't know]

   [3:29] I know everything hasn't been quite right with me. But I
          can assure you now, very confidently...
          HAL 9000, from the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey"

   [3:41] A year ago exactly on this same night we were assembled
          here in this very room. I your pastor and you my beloved
          flock. With hopefulness in my heart, I told you then that
          with Lucifer's aid we might look forward to a more succulant
          occassion. Cast back your mind. There we were, gathered
          together gloomy and despondent, around that single meager
          woodcut...
          Ferdy Wayne, from the movie "The Fearless Vampire Killers"

   [4:18] ...I feel much better now.
          HAL 9000, from the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey"

//thomas


From galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ames!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!adobe!dkletter Sun Oct 18 21:05:50 EDT 1992
Article: 16095 of rec.music.industrial
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ames!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!adobe!dkletter
From: dkletter@adobe.com (SUGAR in their vitamins?)
Subject: notes/reviews...
Message-ID: <1992Oct15.062439.17212@adobe.com>
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when i was catching up on my reading this this group tonight,
i noticed a few discussions about topics that are dealt with
in the FAQ. for instance, the string about Skinny Puppy's
AIN'T IT DEAD YET? live cd containing only one track. folks,
i urge you to read the FAQ file when it gets posted.

----------------------------------------------------------------
i haven't reviewed much in a long time, but i've picked up some
new stuff lately, so...

GLENN BRANCA - Symphony No.1/Solar Plexis (CD - Danceteria/Roir)
"music in four movements for multiple guitars, keyboards, brass
and percussion." i'm not sure how to explain Glenn Branca. it's
like he's taking rock instruments and attempting to create a real
opera feeling. it definately succeeds. i've listened to Symphony
No.6, but this is clearly much more complex with many more musicians
involved, including Lee Reynaldo and Thurston Moore. each movement
focuses on different aspects of the instruments. the first deals
mainly with stringed instruments. the second is a percussion piece.
the third is mostly horns, but has elements of bowed and regular
guitars and the last is a combination of everything. many times
he uses dissonant chords that are in a recursive loop giving a
sense of a building tension that never dies off. if you listen
carefully, you can pick out specific instruments, but when you
step back, you can hear it as if it were an entire symphony playing.
it is very big and real and you can only imagine what it must
have been like to see this thing live.

CCCC - Cosmic Coincidence Control Center (CD - Endorphine Factory)
there is a huge wave of these Japanese "noiz" bands coming out on
the scene. i've listened to many of them and probably my biggest
complaint about this genre is that some of them tend to sound the
same, but have very different live stage gimmicks. listening to this,
i realize that there are still some Japanese bands that are attempting
something relatively unique within the noiz arena. the music first
swells with layers of noise textures that are constantly building a
sense of ever growing paranoia for the listener. as things progress,
a sense of psychedelic influences are intersperced as the tones
change and the textures continue to build. towards the end, you are
hypnotized. i understand that the studio recording is considered to
be better than the actual live experience, save for the little
performance art that gives way towards the end of the show. the music
itself is at no extreme level like Solmania or Incapacitants which
i believe either you immediately like it or you never do. the
one thing i noticed was at times which i was amazed at, was that i
thought i could hear voices mixed into the music. but there are none
from what i can tell. i am sure that the layers of polyrthyms created
by the various noise textures makes for that sense of blended sounds
an added feature. highly recommened.

ESPLENDOR GEOMETRICO - Sheikh Aljama (CD - Daft)
having never heard anything by this band, i had no idea what to
expect when the crunchy, fuzzed out beats on an oil drum came
pounding through my speakers. at first, i wondered if something
was wrong with my receiver. the music, when you get down to it
is very much influenced by middle-eastern, Arabic traditional
songs. much of it sounds like a combination of percussion on metal
and pre-programmed synth drum patterns with Arabic soundbites
intersperced. everything is treated with a healthy dosage of fuzz.
i can't quite make my mind up on this one. some of it definately
sounds good, but halfway through, it all begins to sound the same
and i wonder if it's not time to just slap something else on. i
also noticed that Dirk Ivens is given credit on the CD. isn't
this the same Dirk who was in the Klinik (or was it Vomito Negro)?
there is a kind of disco-industrial appeal to the music, but that
is more subtle than anything else contained. what is some of the
other Esplendor Geometrico like? i was under the impression that
it was more on the lines of semi-harsh ambient noise textures.
also, do they have any other albums other than the one on that
Italian label (Musica Maxima...)? anyone?

NEGATIVLAND - Points (CD - Seeland)
the re-release to CD that many people have been waiting for with
bated breath. the CD is basically made up of very short (in light
of most of Negativland's stuff) pieces. i haven't really listened
to it too much, but so far, i think i still like ESCAPE FROM NOISE
best.

THE WARM GARDEN (cassette - Anciant Records)
i got this tape from Mason. i wish i knew who the artist was, but
it's written in Japanese. i think he said that it was one of the
members of Solmania. or was it Incapacitants? in any case, the
two sides are broken into equal halves of one big piece. the
first side consists of eerie electronics on old Casio keyboards
to create elaborate soundscapes that have a familiar sound, but
is really relaxing. it's a more active side with some noize
and textured effects. the second side is called VIOLIN TRAVALER
and sounds mainly like treated violins and bows on metal plates.
occaisionally, there is a sound that i recall as those plastic
tubes that kids have these days that when you swing around it
makes an interesting reverberated sound. this side is more
quiet and sullen, and equally good. the overall haunting nature
gives it a soundtrack feeling. quite good. write to Mason
at Charnel House and request a copy!

hasta.

-- 
Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


From galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!stanford.edu!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!wupost!udel!rochester!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!pprussak Fri Nov  6 21:02:52 EST 1992
Article: 17009 of rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!stanford.edu!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!wupost!udel!rochester!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!pprussak
From: pprussak@acsu.buffalo.edu (Piotr T. Prussak)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Laibach Fans UNITE!!!
Keywords: its history
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In article <04NOV92.11874635.0057@VM1.MCGILL.CA> IRI7@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA (IRI7000) writes:
>  The Laibach story is a long one and here is as much as I remember:
>They are from Ljubljana, the capital of Slovenia (ex-Yugoslavia) and
>they were originally a bunch of art students who made exhibitions
>with Throbbing Gristle playing in the background.Their discography is
>more or less as follows:

Laibach is the German name for Ljubljana, and as a group they are a part of
Neue Slowenische Kunst = New Slovene Art. In short NSK is a collective, and
every member of NSK must abide the laws of the collective. These laws
are proclaimed in 'Constitution of Membership and Basic Duties of NSK Members'

Laibach has a similar 'internal' constitution called '10 items of the
covenant'; although all of the points are very interesting, I only have the
time to copy bits and pieces:

1.
LAIBACH works as a team (the collective spirit), according to the principle
of industrial production and totalitarianism, which means that the
individual does not speak; the organization does. Our work is industrial,
our language political.

6.
(...)
The material of LAIBACH manipulation: Taylorism, bruitism, Nazi Kunst, 
disco ...

The principle of work is totally constructed and the compositional process
is a dictated "ready-made": Industrial production is rationally
developmental, but if we extract from this process the element of the
moment and emphasize it, we also designate to it the mystical dimension of
alienation, which reveals the magical component of the industrial process. 
Repression of the industrial ritual is transformized into a compositional
dictate and the politicization of sound can become absolute tonality.


>1) "Tournee over Occupied Netherlands" (tape-never heard it)

(...)

The book on NSK mentions 25 licensed records and tapes from 80-89 era.
I'm sure there must be more of the stuff flying around in various west
European countries. Some of them are EPs, though. Additionally, there are
some releases for theaters, film scores and videos.

Someone asked for the name of the record with a man on the cross:
'Klangniederschrift Einer Taufe' for $22 on Sub Rosa.

>9) "Kapital" - their latest amazing release.When I first listened to
>it I was very dissapointed: it's a totally new Laibach: not the slow,
>heavy,classical music-influenced one. However, after listening to the
>album another couple of times it finally got under my skin and at the
>moment it totally blows me away. What we have here is a very dark
>(sometimes a bit melancholic) mixture of industrial a la Kraftwek +
>hip hop + classical/orchestral stuff (reminiscent of earlier Laibach
>albums). What makes this CD great is it's originality: taking from
>such over-exploited sources as Kraftwerk and hip-hop, Laibach managed
>to come up with something totally new and unique. The quality of the
>songwriting in general is very good, but there are some cases where it
>is simply amazing!!!! (check out "State of gravity, regime of coinci-
>dence":a total mind-blower). This one is a must for any industrial
>fan. 

I was also shocked by a swift change of style. The style, IMHO, reflects
the changes in industrial societies, and is very much in line with Laibach
ideology. Some people, however, do not distinguish between industrial
and noise, and hence so many complaints about the album.


>Jacek {iri7@musicb.mcgill.ca}
>
>             KRVAVA GRUDA              PLODNA ZEMLJA

Piotr

	      BLOODY CLOD               FERTILE SOIL
-- 

WIT AND WISDOM OF PIOTR PRUSSAK:
``be smart not dumb'' -- Paul Graham


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail Mon Oct  4 23:06:23 EDT 1993
Article: 29177 of rec.music.industrial
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From: uwin@u.washington.edu (The UWIN Server)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
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Date: 2 Oct 1993 10:40:42 -0500
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From: 2PFERDS@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (Pete Eaton)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------












                            _____
                          / _____ \
                        / /   _   \ \
                       | |   |_|   | |
                        \ \ _____ / /
                          \___ ___/
      EINSTUERZENDE       ___| |___       NEUBAUTEN
                        / ___   ___ \
                       | /   | |   \|
                       |/ ___| |___
                        /   _______ \
                       |  /        \ |
                       | |          \|
                       |/

                         DISCOGRAPHY



 -"DESTRUCTION IS NOT NEGATIVE, YOU MUST DESTROY TO BUILD"-

Welcome to the "Einstuerzende Neubauten" discography.   v1.0
1992, March 19.

     This is a chronological list in order of release of
E.N.'s legitimate recordings: sorry, I have no info on
bootlegs/concert recordings to date.
     Some titles freely translated (where possible) from
Deutch by myself, which are enclosed in braces or parentheses
following a song or title.  Others were provided with
translations in the fold-out or on the back of the album;
others have no translations at all.  Track times are provided
where possible.

*Credit is due to -Klaus Maeck- for his biography of E.N.:
"HOER MIT SCHMERZEN" (Listen With Pain) 80'- 89', used as a
source for much of the information contained in this
discography, and without which, my own knowledge of E.N.
would be small indeed.

     The country of origin codes are as follows:
(GR) Germany             (UK) United Kingdom
(US) USA                 (JA) Japan
(FR) France              (NL) Netherlands
*(SKAN) This is given in the book cited above.  I have no
idea what it means.
*Note: Many works listed below were provided with no
information as to their origin, sorry.

FORMAT: The format for the listings here is as follows:

[+YEAR+]
ALBUM/SINGLE/ETC.        "TITLE" (TRANSLATION) If available
     INFO ABOUT THE WORK, PRODUCERS, GUESTS, ETC.
     (PERFORMERS)
              1) SONG TITLE (Translation) TRACK TIME
ADDTIONAL INFO GIVEN BY * OR []
LABELS RELEASED ON    FORMATS AVAILABLE   (COUNTRY CODES)

"My soul burns..." Blixa Bargeld, [SEELE BRENNT]



[+1980+]

7" single      "FUR DEN UNTERGANG"

          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh)

               1) FUR DEN UNTERGANG  (For the downfall)
               2) STAHLVERSION  (Steelversion)

MONOGAM RECORDS



Sampler        Monogam Sampler

          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh)

               1) WOLLT IHR DIE TOTALE BEFRIEDIGUNG
               2) ZUCKENDES FLEISCH
               3) 13 LOCHER (LEBEN IST ILLEGAL)
               4) KLINIK
               5) DUB
               6) WINNETOU WALZER
                  (ALS HITLER DAS ROSA KANINCHEN STAHL)

MONOGAM RECORDS




Cassette       Livekassette Moon 1.April

          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh?)

               1) GIER (Greed)
               2) ATOMARER WALZER
               3) SPRACHLOS? (Speechless?)
               4) FRISCHES BLUT FUR BERLIN
               5) U.A.

EISENGRAU



Cassette       Livekassette 2.

          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh?)

               1) CHAOS, SEHNSUCHT
               2) ENERGIE

EISENGRAU



Cassette       Livekassette 3.

          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh?)

               1) STAHL (Steel)
               2) MECHANIK
               3) KRISTALLINES EISEN (Crystal sword)
               4) TAGESLICHT ERTRAGEN
               5) GIER (ZUM TIER MACHEN)
                  [Greed, changing to animal]
               6) ENERGIE (ZUM EINSTURZ BRINGEN)

EISENGRAU



[+1981+]

Do-7" Single   "KALTE STERNE"

          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit)

               1) KALTE STERNE (Black hole)
               2) AUFRECHT GEHEN
               3) EHRLICHER STEIN
               4) PYGMAEN
               5) SCHWARZ (Black)

ZICK ZACK ZZ40



Sampler        "LIEBER ZUVIEL ALS ZUWENIG"

          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit?)

               1) BAKTERIEN FUR EURE SEELE
                  (Bacteria for your soul)

ZICK ZACK



[+1982+]

Album          "KOLLAPS"

          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit)

               1) KOLLAPS (Collapse) 8:03
               2) SEHNSUCHT 1:21
               3) VORM KRIEG (Former war) :21
               4) HIRNSAGE (Brainsaw) 1:55
               5) ABSTIEG & ZERFALL (Decline & ruin) 4:28
               6) TANZ DEBIL (Dance of mental illness) 3:25
               7) HELGA :22
               8) NEGATIV NEIN 2:28
               9) U-HAFT MUZAK 3:40
              10) DRAUSSEN IST FEINDLICH :49
                  (Outside is hostile)
              11) HOREN MIT SCHMERZEN 2:32
                  (Listening with pain)
              12) JET'M 1:25
              13) STEH AUF BERLIN 3:46 *
              14) NEGATIVE NEIN 4:38 *
                  (Live recorded at Tempodrom/Berlin, june
                   1987, previously unreleased)

* Tracks unavailable on this album prior to its CD release.
Note: The tracks on the record and tape are in a different
order than those of the CD.  The LP order is given here.

ZICK ZACK ZZ 65


Single         "DURSTIGES TIER" (Thirsty animal)

          Performed with Lydia Lunch
(Blixa Bargeld/F.M. Einheit/Borsig/Mark Chung/Lunch/Howard)

               1) DURSTIGES TIER (Thirsty animal)

*Sorry, no info on releases of this one*



Cassette       "STAHLDUBVERSIONS"

          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung)

               1) SADOMASODUB
               2) RIVIERADUB
               3) MIKROBENDUB
               4) GASTARBEITERDUB
               5) SPIONAGEDUB
               6) LUNESBEST
               7) LIEBESDUB

RIPOFF RIP6


Cassette       "LIVE"

          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung)

               1) SCHATTEN (Phantom)
               2) SCHWARZ (Black)
               3) NN
               4) GESTOHLENES BAND
               5) BOCHUM(PUBLIKUM) U.A.

RIPOFF RIP7


Sampler        "DAS ABENDPROGRAM"

          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung)

               1) KRIEG IN DEN STADTEN
               2) HOER MIT SCHMERZEN
               3) KOLLAPS (Live)

EIGELSTEIN SAMPLER



[+1983+]

Album          "DIE ZEICHNUNGEN DES PATIENTEN O.T."
          Mixed by Jon Caffrey
          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung)

               1) VANADIUM-I-CHING 4:54
               2) HOSPITALISTICHE KINDER/ENGEL DER
                  VERNICHTUNG 4:54
                  (Hospitalized children/Annihilating Angel)
               3) ABFACKELN! (Scorching off!) 3:32
               4) NEUN ARME (Nine arms) 2:34
               5) HERDE 1:24
               6) MERLE 2:20
               7) ZEICHNUNGEN DES PATIENTEN O.T. 3:23
                  (The drawings of patient O.T.[The new sun])
               8) FINGER + ZAHNE (Finger + tooth) :17
               9) FALSCHGELD (Fake money) 2:42
              10) STYROPOR 2:24
              11) ARMENIA 4:57
              12) DIE GENAVE ZEIT (Exact time) 7:06
              13) DERR HERRSCHER UND DER SIEGER 3:32 [1]
                  (The ruler and the conqueror)
              14) AFFENROULETTE 2:59 [1]
              15) DURSTIGES TIER (Thirsty animal) 6:25 [1]
              16) WASSERTURM (Water tower) 6:27 [2]

[1] These tracks were released only on the UK CD version
    entitled "Drawings of Patient OT".
[2] This track was released on the German CD version but not
    on the UK version.

SOME BIZARRE SBVART 2 (GR) CD, VINYL
ROUGH TRADE DTSCHLD RTD 18
VOGUE (FR)
WAVE (JA)
JEM (US)
MUTE (SKAN)
PVCD 9902 (UK) CD, VINYL


12" Single

          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung)

               1) AFFENROULETTE
               2) DER HERRSCHER UND DER SIEGER
                  (The Ruler and the conqueror)
               3) DNS
               4) WASSERTURM (Water tower)

ZUSATZLICH 12" nar bei ZE (US)


Sampler        MUSICLAB COMPILATION

          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung)

               1) TANZ-ZE-DUB

HARRIS JOHNS


Sampler        "SCHLAFLOSE NACHT"

          Produced by Alex Hacke with F.M. Einheit, Blixa
Bargeld.
     (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung?)

               1) THE ANGEL WILL NOT COME

*No info on releases of this one*


[+1984+]

Collection     "STRATEGEN GEGEN ARCHITEKTUREN"
             (Strategies against architechture)

          Remastered by Jon Caffrey, compiled by E.N. + Jim
Thirlwell.
     (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung)

               1) TANZ DEBIL 3:20                         [2]
                  (Dance of mental illness)
               2) SCHMERZEN HOREN 2:31                    [2]
               3) MIKROBEN (Microbes) 1:32                [2]
               4) KRIEG IN DEN STADTEN 3:45               [2]
               5) ZUM TIER MACHEN 3:05                    [3]
                  (Changing to animal)
               6) DRAUSSEN IST FEINDLICH :49              [2]
                  (Outside is hostile)
               7) STAHLVERSION (Steelversion) 5:36        [1]
               8) SCHWARZ (Black) 4:16                    [2]
               9) NEGATIV NEIN 2:24                       [2]
              10) KALTE STERNE 4:11                       [2]
                  (Black hole, cold star)
              11) SPALTUNG (Split) 2:25                   [3]
              12) U-HAFT MUZAK 3:42                       [2]
              13) GESTOHLENES BAND (OKF) :17              [3]
              14) SCHWARZ (MUTIERT) 3:27                  [3]
                  [Black (a mutation)]

[1] Recorded in 1980
[2] Recorded in 1981
[3] Recorded in 1982

MUTE STOMM 14 (UK, FR, SKAN)
ROUGH TRADE (GR) VINYL
VOGUE (FR)
WAVE (JA)
HOMESTEAD HMSD63-2 (US) CD, VINYL



Cassette       "2X4 (LIVE)"

          (Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung)

               1) FLEISCH + BLUT (Flesh + blood)
               2) HAUT + KNOCHEN (Skin + bone)
               3) SEHNSUCHT (NIE MEHR)
               4) WOMB
               5) KRACH DER SCHLAGENDEN HERZEN
               6) AMENISCH BITTER
               7) ZUM TIER MACHEN (Changing to animal)
               8) SEHNSUCHT (STILLSTEHEND)
               9) DURSTIGE TIERE

ROIR A 133


[+1985+]

Single         "YU GUNG"

          Remix by Adrian Sherwood, 'SAND' - original by Lee
Hazlewood.
(Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung+Gareth
Jones)

               1) YU GUNG
               2) SEELE BRENNT (Soul burns)
               3) SAND

SOME BIZARRE BART 12 (GR)
WHAT'S SO FUNNY ABOUT SF 09 (UK)
WAVE (JA)
ROUGH TRADE (US)
MUTE (SKAN)



Album          "HALBER MENSCH" (Half man)

          Produced by Gareth Jones.
     (Blixa Bargeld/N.H.  Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung)

               1) HALBER MENSCH (Half man) 4:13
               2) YU GUNG (FUTTER MEIN EGO) 7:14
               3) TRINKLIED (Drinking song) 1:16
               4) Z.N.S. 5:41
               5) SEELE BRENNT (Soul burns) 4:05
               6) SEHNSUCHT (ZITTERND) [Yearning] 2:55
               7) DER TOD IST EIN DANDY 6:42
                  (Death is a dandy)
               8) LETZTES BIEST (AM HIMMEL) 3:44
                  [Last beast in the sky]
               9) DAS SCHABEN (Scrape) 9:22 *
              10) SAND 3:30 *

*Bonus tracks on (UK) version SF 14.

SOME BIZARRE BART 331 (GR)
WHAT'S SO FUNNY ABOUT SF 14 (UK) CD, VINYL, CASSETTE
ROUGH TRADE (US)
BOUDISQUE (NL)
WAVE (JA)
MUTE (SKAN)


Sampler        "IF YOU CAN'T PLEASE YOUR SOUL, YOU CAN'T
                PLEASE YOURSELF"
          Contains one previously unreleased track by
          Einstuerzende which has since been released in 1991
          on the double collection: "STRAGTEGIES AGAINST
          ARCHITECHTURE II".

(Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung/Alex Hacke)

               1) PRODUCT PATROL by CABARET VOLTAIRE
               2) TWISTED by PSYCHIC T.V.
               3) FLESH AND BONES by The the
               4) THE WHEEL by COIL
               5) THE ROXY CUT by YELLO
               6) WARDROBE by Einstuerzende Neubauten *
               7) THE BLACK COUNTRY CHAINSAY MASSACRE
                  by POP WILL EAT ITSELF
               8) LIKE AN ANGEL by POP WILL EAT ITSELF
               9) I'M WITH YOU by POP WILL EAT ITSELF
              10) SWEET SWEET PIE by POP WILL EAT ITSELF
              11) SICK LITTLE GIRL by POP WILL EAT ITSELF

* This is a good tune, don't miss it.  However, if I were you
I would get it on E.N.'s double collection as the rest of the
music on this compilation is nothing like E.N.!

SOME BIZARRE COMPILATION (UK?) CD



[+1987+]

Album          "FUNF AUF DER NACH OBEN OFFENEN RICHTERSCALA"
                (Five on the open-ended Richter scale)

          Produced by Gareth Jones
(Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung/Alex Hacke)

               1) ZERSTORTE ZELLE (Destroyed cell) 8:01
               2) 12 STADTE (12 Cities) 7:32
               3) ICH BIN'S (It's me) 3:22
               4) MORNING DEW 4:57
               5) MODIMIDOFRSASO (MonTueWedThuFriSatSun) 4:50
               6) KEINE SCHONHEIT (OHNE GEFAHR) 5:06
                  (No beauty without danger)
               7) KEIN BESTANDTEIL SEIN 6:42
                  (To be no part of it)

Note: The track order on this album varies between formats
      and record companies.

SOME BIZARRE BART 332 (UK) CD, VINYL, CASSETTE
WHAT'S SO FUNNY ABOUT SF 50 (GR)
RELATIVITY (US)
WAVE (JA)
MUTE (SKAN, FR)
BOUDISQUE (NL)



Sampler        "SMACK MY CRACK"

          Artist list unknown

               1) ADLER KOMMT SPAETER

GIORNO POETRY SYSTEMS



[+1989+]

Album          "HAUS DER LUEGE" (House of lies)

          Mixed by Jon Caffrey
(Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung/Alex Hacke)

               1) PROLOG 1:50
               2) FEURIO! 6:04
               3) EIN STUHL IN DER HOELLE 2:09
                  (A chair in hell)
               4) HAUS DER LUEGE (House of lies) 3:59
               5) EPILOG :30
               6) FIAT LUX 12:24
               7) SCHWINDEL (Swindle) 3:58
               8) DER KUSS (The kiss) 3:39

SOME BIZARRE BART 333 (UK)
ROUGH TRADE RTD 126 (GR, NL)
ROUGH TRADE US 71 CD (US) CD, VINYL, CASSETTE
WAVE? (JA)
*releases in France and Scand. exist but I have no info on
 them.  Sorry.



Single         "FEURIO!"

(Blixa Bargeld/N.H. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung/Alex Hacke)

               1) FEURIO 4:59 *
               2) HAUS DER LUEGE (House of lies) 4:26
               3) PARTYMUCKE (Party fly) 3:46 **

*  Remix by Jon Caffrey/F.M. Einheit
** Composed for the theatreplay "Andi"

ROUGH TRADE 065T (GR?) CD, VINYL



[+1991+]

Album          "STRATEGIES AGAINST ARCHITECHTURE II"

          A double collection containing previously
unreleased tracks.
(Blixa Bargeld/N.u. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung/Alex Hacke)

     DISC I
               1) ABFACKELN! (Scorching off) 3:30
               2) PARTYNUMMER (Party number) 1:35 *
               3) Z.N.S. 5:39
               4) DIE ELEKTRIK (MERLE) 2:21
               5) INTERMEZZO/YU-GUNG (LIVE) 6:18
               6) SEELE BRENNT (Soul burns) 4:08
               7) BLUTVERGIFTUNG (Blood poisoning) 1:50
               8) SAND 3:30
               9) KANGOLICHT 4:14
              10) ARMENIA (LIVE) 4:39
              11) EIN STUHL IN DER HOELLE 2:08
                  (A chair in hell)

     DISC II
               1) VANADIUM-I-CHING 4:53
               2) LEID UND ELUND (Sorrow and misery) 4:35
               3) DNS-WASSERTURM 6:27
               4) ARMENIA II (LIVE) 3:46
               5) FACKELN! (Scorching) 1:56
               6) ICH BIN'S 3:21
               7) HIRNLEGO (Brainlego)
               8) WARDROBE 2:39
               9) BILDBESCHREIBUNG (Picture/description) 9:31
              10) HAUS DER LUEGE (House of lies) 4:37
              11) JORDACHE :28
              12) KEIN BESTANDTEIL SEIN 6:43
                  (To be no part of it)

* Live version of "PARTYMUCKE"

MUTE 61100-2 (US) CD, CASSETTE



Soundtrack     "DIE HAMLETMASCHINE"

     Composed for the theatreplay "Die Hamletmaschine" by
Heiner Muller.  Performed at the Schauspieltheaterverlag,
Berlin.
Hamlet: Blixa Bargeld
Ophelia: Gudrun Gut

(Blixa Bargeld/N.U. Unruh/F.M. Einheit/Mark Chung/Alex Hacke)

               1) DIE HAMLETMASCHINE 31:48

ROUGH TRADE RTD 197.1208.2 40 (GR) CD

-------------------------------------------------------------

     That's all I wrote, happy hunting.  I will update as the
need arises.

Your man back door man,

PTR. 92'









From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!doc.ic.ac.uk!syma!kevinb Wed Nov 24 15:58:02 EST 1993
Article: 31598 of rec.music.industrial
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!doc.ic.ac.uk!syma!kevinb
From: kevinb@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Kevin Busby)
Subject: Re: Daniel Miller = Robert Rental?
Message-ID: <1993Nov21.180909.12380@syma.sussex.ac.uk>
Organization: University of Sussex
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]
References: 
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1993 18:09:09 GMT
Lines: 83
Status: RO


Al Crawford  wrote:-

> there's at least a chance of it being true. In fact, if enough people
> believe it, Rental and Miller may become the same person whether they
> really are or not :-)

Take that screen break *now*! :-)

> The primary purpose of my post was to get across the Quite Definitely True
> information that Leer and Rental are not the same person. Both are pictured
> on the back of _The Bridge_, both look quite different :-)

Apart from the haggard look of "What f***in' day is it", obviously!

I remembered that I had a clipping of an interview of Leer and Rental from the
2nd February 1980 'Melody Maker'. I hope the following extracts are of
interest or amusement:-

"[Rental] and Leer[...] met as gardeners in their home town of Port Glasgow
[...]
"They're still surprised by the lack of interest which followed their
singles. Rental's "Paralysis", for example, sold in excess of 7,000
[Leer's was 'Private Plane', which can be found on the 'Business Unusual
compilation LP along with the B-side to 'Paralysis'] yet they remained, in
their own words, 'the last electronic connection', failing even to pick up
a firm commitment from Rough Trade, who tentatively offered studio time.
Eventually, they got a call from Genesis P. Orridge [sic], Throbbing
Gristle's all-purpose conceptual artist and singer: would they like to
record an album? Gristle, a.k.a. Industrial Records, rented the duo's
eight-track recording equipment to use in Rental's living room [...]
Rental on making an album in two weeks flat: 'If you look at the photos
on the back [of the album], you can see how fucked up we got. This room
was just a big ashtray. Fish and chips everywhere, two hours sleep a night
- it got to the point where you'd switch on a tape recorder, sound would
come out and you'd think 'What the fuck is this all about?'
[...]
"Rental's live collaboration last year with Daniel Miller [...] has left
him [...] pessimistic: 'Once you've been playing the same things for 20
gigs, it's not interesting any more.'"

I wrote:-
>> Also, the picture of Rental on the back of 'The Bridge' doesn't look like
>> Miller (er, I don't think so anyway).

Just looked up an old interview with Miller (don't worry, no long quotes
of that one!). He doesn't look anything like Rental or Leer. Apart from
the haggard look of... :-) :-)

Meanwhile, Thomas Homulka  wrote:-

> Also, Daniel Miller = Robert Rental.  Just check any of the Mute Records
> "Documentary Evidence" flyers that come with some of the vinyl LPs/12"s.  It
> gives the story of Mute Records and talks of Daniel Miller's single "Double
> Heart/On Location" under the name Robert Rental.

I think I now see how this started... Documentary Evidence 2 says:-

"The Normal in concert with Robert Rental dissolves barriers between pop and
experiment. Under his daytime identity Daniel Miller, he works at Rough Trade,
working out the logistics of an independent operation".

Poor syntax is the culprit here. It seems that the writer is talking about
Rental, when he is really (in context) talking about The Normal.

Of 'Double Heart', Documentary Evidence (what an apt title that turned out
to be!) says "Robert Rental's solitary Mute single, the warming "Double
Heart", is a rare remaining trace of a singular electronic pop pioneer".


> As far as Thomas Leer goes, I'm not sure about that one.

Thomas Leer is Trent Reznor.

Cheers,


Kevin

--
"Hello boys. There's been a change of plan.
You're going on after Crispy Ambulance!"
   - Half-Man Half-Biscuit, 'Running Order Squabblefest'


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!doc.ic.ac.uk!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!mason Wed Dec  1 17:33:33 EST 1993
Article: 31946 of rec.music.industrial
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!doc.ic.ac.uk!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!mason
From: mason@netcom.com (Mason Jones)
Subject: Re: Iron Man Soundtrack
Message-ID: 
Organization: Charnel House
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
References: 
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 07:03:07 GMT
Lines: 33
Status: RO

Ron Gilliams (gilliams@netcom.com) wrote:
: This weekend we checked out a Japanese flic called "Iron man"
: it was maded last year. It has a great industrial soundtrack, does anyone know
: of a place this soundtrack can be found on CD??

Title: "Tetsuo" music by Chu Ishikawa
Label: F2 Co., Ltd./Adisc Nippan
        6F 3-17-11 Kandajinbo-cho, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo
Catalog No.: ADISC-KAI 0001
Tracks: 1. Megatron
	2. The Sixth Tooth
	3. Rana-Porosa Porosa I
	4. Mausoleum
	5. Lost
	6. Dinosauroid
	7. Rana-Porosa Porosa II
	8. A Burned Figure
1, 4, 5 from "Tetsuo/The Iron Man"
2, 3, 6, 7, 8 from "Tetsuo II/The Body Hammer"

Chu Ishikawa used to be in a Japanese band called Zeitlich
Vergelter, who released a couple of singles and compilation
tracks that were very Neubauten-like. Great stuff. Likewise,
this soundtrack is actually worth the effort to find it. As
far as I know, however, it is unavailable in the U.S. I have
tried contacting their distributor with no response yet.


<====================================================================>
   Mason Jones               Charnel House Productions
   mason@netcom.com          P.O. Box 170277, San Francisco, CA
                             94117-0277    Phone/fax (415) 664-1829
<====================================================================>


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!news.Vanderbilt.Edu!news Mon Dec  6 14:38:34 EST 1993
Article: 32041 of rec.music.industrial
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!news.Vanderbilt.Edu!news
From: DICKENJD@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Orpheus23)
Subject: Re: Chaos Magick/Coil (was "Industrial Occult Fascists")
In-Reply-To: boe666@carson.u.washington.edu's message of 4 Dec 1993 05:32:23 GMT
Message-ID: <1993Dec4.081033.7206@news.vanderbilt.edu>
Sender: news@news.vanderbilt.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Organization: Logick Tribe
References:  <2dp7d7$l8s@news.u.washington.edu>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 08:10:33 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24
Lines: 38
Status: RO

In <2dp7d7$l8s@news.u.washington.edu> boe666@carson.u.washington.edu writes:

> >Coil (while not OFFICIALLY affiliated) use themes/concepts derived from 
> >the IOT/Chaos Magick, etc.
> 
> I've been meaning to ask about this and this post gives me a good 
> excuse.  I'm familiar with Thelemic magick, but what is Chaos Magick, who 
> is Austin Osman Spare and who are the IOT?  What is Coil's connection to 
> all of this?  (I know John Balance an honorary member of IOT, though he 
> doesn't practice with them.)  And, to reraise an old question, just who 
> is that guy who's talking about Azrael in "The Golden Section"?
> 
> Beast of Eden
> 

	Chaos Magick is essentially a bastardized form of more traditional
Hermetic/Thelemic theories, with a dose of shamanism/intuitive magick and 
quantum theory.  I suppose it could be considered darker than that which it's 
derived from, but IMO, that all depends on one's point of view.  The 
Illuminated Order of Thanatos (IOT) is the principle "Chaotic" society, formed
by Peter J. Carroll, the party responsible for the whole Chaos Magick thing.
I'd highly recommend reading his two principle works, Liber Null and 
Psychonaut, available in a single volume from Weiser.  If you want the ISBN,
email me.  
	Regarding A.O.Spare, he was an artist who was an associate of 
Crowley's before ole Uncle Al was deeply offended by him, and branded
him, in essence, a heretic.  He developed an intriguing form of intuitive
magick involving "sigils," which were symbols either developed from 
words or icons related to the subject at hand.  It's more complex than I really
want to get into at 2.06AM, but a good book on the subject (better than 
Carroll's treatment) is Practical Sigil Magic by one Frater U.:D.:, which is
available from Llewellyn.  Again, ISBN is available on request.
	And as for the narration in "A Golden Section," I couldn't tell you.
:)

Orpheus23
Logick Tribe
dickenjd@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.claremont.edu!osiris!hthornbu Mon Dec  6 14:46:53 EST 1993
Article: 32056 of rec.music.industrial
Xref: galois rec.music.industrial:32056 alt.gothic:8594
Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.claremont.edu!osiris!hthornbu
From: hthornbu@osiris.hmc.edu (Harvey Thornburg)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial,alt.gothic
Subject: David Tibet's Views on Hitler, Neo-Nazism, etc. (Was: Re: Nazi Tendencies)
Date: 4 Dec 1993 19:14:46 GMT
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA USA
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <2dqnj6$3bo@jaws.cs.hmc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: osiris.ac.hmc.edu
Status: O

Reprinted from the liners to the "Hitler as Kalki" EP w/o permission...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Since this New Year of 1993 I have bben reflecting on questions people
have asked me concerning the song "Hitler as Kalki (SDM)" and my views on
Hitler.  I am in no doubt: Hitler was Antichrist; Jesus killed Hitler -
eventually... We can hope that it should have been much sooner, but for
whatever reasons it was not to be.  Unfortunately, since Hitler's death, all
around his cruel spirit lives and multiplies, and many antichrists now
surround us.  In the dark corners of the nightworld he and his followers
wait, emerging more and more into the day.  I remember my father telling me
of his experience as a member of the first British troops to enter the
extermination camps of Belsen, and the hell on earth he found there.  So
then, perhaps this earth is hell, but it rests us to ensure that we defend
our own hearts against the call from the abyss.  May all be happy, may all
be aware.  The Little Shining Man approaches.  Terrify not Man, lest God
terrify you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--  
  :"categories strain, crack, and      : Harvey D. Thornburg            \|/   :
  : sometimes break...step out of the  :                                 |    :
  : space provided" -S. Stapleton      : hthornbu@osiris.ac.hmc.edu      |    :



From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!isolar!isolar!not-for-mail Mon Dec  6 14:48:52 EST 1993
Article: 32064 of rec.music.industrial
Xref: galois rec.music.industrial:32064 alt.gothic:8600 rec.music.misc:69371 alt.cyberpunk:22130 alt.rave:17009
Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!isolar!isolar!not-for-mail
From: earle@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US (Greg Earle)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial,alt.gothic,alt.music.alternative,rec.music.misc,alt.music.ebm,alt.cyberpunk,alt.rave
Subject: Re: skinny puppy on-line?
Followup-To: rec.music.industrial
Date: 4 Dec 1993 12:48:58 -0800
Organization: Personal Usenet site, Tujunga, CA USA
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <2dqt3q$1ck@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>
References: <93336.235339U54876@uicvm.uic.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: isolar.tujunga.ca.us
Summary: Yep
Status: O

In article <93336.235339U54876@uicvm.uic.edu>,   wrote:
>Sorry if this has been discussed before, but a friend mentioned that
>Skinny Puppy would be coming on-line soon and he was looking for more
>details.  Supposedly they are setting up an Internet site in order to
>foster musical experimentation and collaboration.

What a timely posting.  Have you read your r.m.i. today?

------- Begin Forwarded Article

Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
From: puppy@netcom.com (Skinny Puppy)
Subject: SKINNY PUPPY process for **access**
Message-ID: 
Keywords: skinny puppy process access 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 12:15:55 GMT
Lines: 26

Welcome to The Process...

                  HerebeginsanewpatternofeventsWeinvitethe 
                  processofinteractiontoaidintheresurrecti 
                  onofalatentconciousnesstocounteractthebe 
                  nignanddeludedmassmindfuckthatconstricts 
                  thenaturalevolutionsofexpressionwitnesst
                  heabstractionofyourmentalmasturbationThe
                  potentialshiftincounciousnessisonlyrelev
                  entthroughtheexchangeofideaspictures(art
                  )andfactualtextfilesthroughwhichanopendo
                  orwayappearsallowingtheprocesstocontinue

Send files, thoughts, pictures, paranoid expressions pertaining to the 
above ... FTP Netcom.COM in /pub/puppy/uploads

                       ..  Transmit the disease ..
-- 
        00
        00						 ^
0000000000						 .  S k i n n y 
    00  00						 .  P u p p y
    0000000000  PROCESS				   ..  <+*->  ..    
    00          Media Lab				 . 
    00							 .

------- End of Forwarded Article

-- 
- Greg Earle
  Phone: (818) 353-8695			FAX: (818) 353-1877 [Call # again if
  Internet: earle@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US			     you get data tone]
  UUCP: isolar!earle@elroy.JPL.NASA.GOV a.k.a. ...!elroy!isolar!earle


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.bu.edu!noc.near.net!news.cs.brandeis.edu!binah.cc.brandeis.edu!DEANE Mon Dec  6 15:09:50 EST 1993
Article: 32073 of rec.music.industrial
Xref: galois rec.music.industrial:32073 alt.gothic:8611
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial,alt.gothic
Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.bu.edu!noc.near.net!news.cs.brandeis.edu!binah.cc.brandeis.edu!DEANE
From: deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (David Matthew Deane)
Subject: Re: David Tibet's Views on Hitler, Neo-Nazism, etc. (Was: Re: Nazi Tendencies)
Message-ID: <1993Dec4.231713.297@news.cs.brandeis.edu>
Sender: news@news.cs.brandeis.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
References: <2dqnj6$3bo@jaws.cs.hmc.edu>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 23:17:13 GMT
Lines: 39
Status: O

In article <2dqnj6$3bo@jaws.cs.hmc.edu>, 
hthornbu@osiris.hmc.edu (Harvey Thornburg) writes:
>Reprinted from the liners to the "Hitler as Kalki" EP w/o permission...
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 (deletions)

Good. I was going to quote those liner notes myself, but now that you've done
it, you can take the rap for any possible copyright infringements!  :-) 

The interesting thing about Tibet is that he is impossible to pin down; try
to figure out any polilitical implications from his work, and in response
all one gets is a bunch of eastern mysticism and Crowlyite gobbledygook.
For instance, if Tibet sings that "we're the heralds of Crowleymass" and 
otherwise states his support for Crowley, and if Crowley referred to himself
as the anti-christ, then does that mean that perhaps Tibet calling Hitler
the anti-christ does not quite carry the uniquivical meaning that it appears
to carry at first glance? Is it good to be anti-christ, or is one "beyond
good and evil", or must there be a balance between good and evil, thus making
Hitler/Kalki a necessary component in the order of things? What about the 
writings of Savrit Devri (sp?) -  who I have not read - she was pro-nazi
and believed Hitler to be the "man against time" who heralded the coming
of Kalki and total destruction. I would be very suprised indeed if Tibet
has not read "The Lightning and the Sun" and some of her other books. One 
book Tibet has read (according to Pearce in issue 1 of _The Fifth Path_) is
"Imperium" by Francis Parker Yockey. Yockey was, if not a nazi, then at 
least a nazi appologist, who, using a Spenglerian analysis of history,
argued that the nazis were attempting to bring about the inevitable unification
of Europe, and that Destiny was still working to bring this about. Tibet
has quoted from "Imperium" in some of his songs: "This Destiny does not
tire, nor does it falter, and its mantle of strength descends upon those in its
service."

No, Tibet is not so simple either.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Matthew Deane                   When the words fold open,
(deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu)         it means the death of doors;
                                      even casement windows sense the danger.
                                      (Amon Liner)


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!troi.cc.rochester.edu!wgns Mon Dec  6 15:11:40 EST 1993
Article: 32081 of rec.music.industrial
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!troi.cc.rochester.edu!wgns
From: wgns@troi.cc.rochester.edu (C. Wiggins)
Subject: RESearch Music on CD
Message-ID: <1993Dec5.050934.12195@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>
Sender: news@galileo.cc.rochester.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: troi.cc.rochester.edu
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 93 05:09:34 GMT
Lines: 78
Status: O

I picked up something yesterday that I thought some of you might
be at least passively interested in:  The companion CD to 
RESearch's _Incredibly Strange Music_ issue.  It's a compilation
of 13 songs from 13 of the artists discussed or mentioned in that
issue.  On the whole I think it's clearly worth owning though the
recordings mentioned in the book that I would most like to have
heard aren't represented.  Here are the highlights:

Dean Elliot -- Lonesome Road

	This one I like a lot.  I wish I could hear more.  An excerpt from
	what it says on the back of this record (photos of the front
	& rear of the albums are included in the booklet):

	"In [the album] you'll hear bright, exciting big band arrangements
	of twelve great standards featuring brasses and reeds, rhythm --
	a cement mixer, air compressor, punching bag, hand saw, a whole
	clock factory ... Mr. Elliot [wrote] 'parts' for each of the
	elements right into the music along with the parts for standard
	insturments.  ... many of his effects supply not only rhythm, but
	background and in some cases even melody.  The result is rollicking,
	jumping big band music -- big, big, *big* band music the like of
	which you've never heard before!"

	It's pretty whacky, approaching novelty item status, but I really 
	like it.  

Katie Lee -- "The Will to Fail"

	Another winner, this.  This is from a whole album of folky songs
	about psycho analysis and the psychological problems she's 
	discovered through her therapist, I guess.  Sickenly up-beat, very 
	sweet voice, all about her "will to fail."  Great stuff I say.

Harry Breuer -- "Minute Merengue"

	This is from the _Mallet Mischief_ album that's on the cover of
	the RESearch issue in question.  Not bad.  Sort of 50's backyard
	BBQ music.  This is one of two ultra-white suburban 
	neighbor-entertaining songs on the disc.

Dave Harris -- "Dinner Music for a Pack of Hungry Cannibals"

	Not obvious from the booklet, but this is a (very cool)
	performance of the Raymond Scott tune (from an all-Scott
	album).  Pretty great.  It's more percussion oriented than
	the versions on the 2 Raymond Scott CD anthologies.

Perry&Kingsly -- "Swan's Splashdown"

	WOW!  Easily the best track on the disk and worth the price
	all by itself, I think.  From an album called _The In Sound
	From Way Out: Electronic Pop Music of the Future_, this is
	ultra-beepy, bouncy, primitive, headache-inducing synth music 
	from 1966.  If you've heard the electronic Raymond Scott tune on 
	the "Happy Boy Margarine" 7" (from Bannanafish mag) and liked it
	then you'll like this too.  I want more.

Kali Bahlu -- "A Cosmic Telephone Call"

	This is too bizzarre.  It's a female speak-singing (in a
	very Lauri Anderson sounding way) about a telephone 
	conversation she had with budda during which he told her
	about how the reincarnation system works.  Really strange.
	The write-up makes it out to be serious.  If it is,
	it's truly amazing.  If not, it's still pretty funny.
	Her voice cracks me up.

There's plenty of weak stuff too -- a track of a guy whistling the william 
tell overture, 50's greaser music, a sitar rendition of "Up Up and Away" &
some accordian music (yawn, yawn, and yawn).  But worth the price for the
above morsels.


--
______________________________________________________________________________
 Chris Wiggins                                    wgns@troi.cc.rochester.edu  
==============================================================================


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!eff!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!darwin.sura.net!nntp.st.usm.edu!whale.st.usm.edu!cdenoble Wed Dec  8 17:52:31 EST 1993
Article: 32181 of rec.music.industrial
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From: cdenoble@whale.st.usm.edu (Clark Richard Denoble Jr)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Douglas P. comments on Nazis
Date: 6 Dec 1993 23:22:42 GMT
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The following is a short interview with Douglas P. I don't know what
magazine it appeared in. A copy was sent to me by a friend, the original
interview was in German, the translation was included.

Hope this helps shed light on the subject...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: What do you think about the right extremists taking over and the
encroachment of the foreigners in Germany?

Douglas: In the first place I don't like bumb people (annoyed). Why
should I or DIJ have something to do with these stupid skinheads or
the neo-nazi shits? Is there something in my music, which would allow 
one to think, that I am interested in these people? Have you ever 
lived next door to gypsies? I can understand the grudge, which is
appearing in jEastern Germany. What have the people there since the
three year reunification [done] and are they waiting for the same high
standard of living like in Western Germany? Nothing. All that they
have is a stream of refugees from everywhere there. So their annoyances 
are only natural and understandable. Only because one is German, one 
becomes already aaccused of neo-nazi tendencies. But if English well!-
They would be far less tolerant. But what has all this to do with DIJ>
Why always political questions? For 11 years I have said that skinheads,
neo-nazis and violent criminals are complete assholes and I still say 
that today! There are indeed so many idiots in the left wing camp as
well. I don't think about such people. They are not a part of my world.
They are Nothing, like the trash on the street. The people are scum,
whether they are politically oriented or not. I am certain, that most
of the people have no understanding of the differences between the 
dialectical of Marx and Hitler or of Himmler's fascism.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although some of the flow seems to have been lost in the translation,
at very least it should now be CLEAR that Douglas P. is not a nazi....


TTFN--rick




From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.cs.brandeis.edu!binah.cc.brandeis.edu!DEANE Wed Dec  8 18:00:42 EST 1993
Article: 32200 of rec.music.industrial
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From: deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (David Matthew Deane)
Subject: Re: Nazi Tendencies
Message-ID: <1993Dec6.232220.17000@news.cs.brandeis.edu>
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 23:22:20 GMT
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In article , 
patrik@shell.portal.com (Patrick M Crumhorn) writes:
>    I'm surprised no one else has mentioned the lyrics to DIJ's "We Drive
>East." 

I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up.

>"We drive East, to fight the Bolshevik Beast."   

As I recall, it was "let loose from the leash, to hunt the Bolshevik Beast."

>Doesn't sound
>like a bunch of "pro-Soviet" Strasserites to me. 

Sigh. I was trying to slip quietly away after saying my piece, but I really
feel I need to clear up a few misconceptions. First of all, all national
socialists - the Strasser brothers included - were anti-communist and would 
have been willing to attack the Soviet Union at some point. It was a question
of priorities. The Strassers were strongly socialist, so they felt that Germany
could get along better with the USSR - at least for a while - and that the
number one enemy was the capitalist West. Hitler's priorities were the reverse
- he had no compunction against fighting the West, but for Hitler the USSR was
the primary enemy. Stasserites were only "pro-Soviet" in the sense that they
saw communists as misquided folks who could (in Germany at least) be turned to 
the Nazi cause, and who were preferable to liberal capitalists. It was not the 
Strasserites who were really pro-Soviet, but rather the national bolsheviks, 
and the national bolsheviks had very little influence on the Nazi party.

At to DIJ: there are a number of song lyrics which suggest a Strasserite point
of view, although they could just as well be from the point of view of any
conservative, anti-communist person who was disillusioned with Hitler. Take,
for instance, "Knives" which would seem to refer to the infamous "Night of the
Long Knives" in 1934, where not only Roehm, Strasser, and other Nazis were
killed, but also leading non-nazi conservatives and "conservative
revolutionary" intellectuals. Those who were not killed were censored or
otherwise silenced. 

To continue: "Heaven Street" suggests disillusionment with a system gone 
monstrously awry: "weighty feet frozen to the ground"; oppressive: "rifle 
butts to crush you down"; and genocidal: "the earth explodes with the gas of 
bodies". And yet: "this road leads to heaven". Is this irony? I don't think so.
For one thing, it is far too heavy handed - irony requires a deft touch. What 
this is, is not irony, but TRAGEDY. Not tragedy in some kind of melodramatic 
sense, but tragedy in existential terms. Despairing yet life-affirming. As 
Joseph Campbell explained to the shocked Bill Moyers, even soldiers in an 
"unjust war" can be heroes because heroism comes not from adhering to some 
moral code, but from affirming one's fate, and (to borrow from Nietzsche), 
"saying yes to life." The tragedy of human life is that it ends in death. "In 
the midst of life we are in death." And yet, in the midst of death there is 
life. 

Looking again at "We Drive East" we see more of the same. The soldier - I 
might even say "political soldier", but that would assume some affinity on the
part of DIJ for certain British "third position" groups in the mid-1980's - the
soldier is not being allowed to fight a war of liberation "against the
Bolshevik Beast" but has been dragooned ("let loose from the leash") into a 
genocidal war not of his own making: "just a soldier, an agitator, marching 
towards the, incinerator"; marching towards inevitable doom: "the hangman 
awaits." The cause for which the soldier fights is just: "we carried our 
banner high"; but has been betrayed. The soldier's sacrifice has been in vain: 
"we paid in blood...to die on the steppes....we paid in blood....for a free 
Europe...we died for nought". This seems to me to be consistent with both an 
anti-Hitler and an anti-communist point of view.

> But, then, I suppose the
>lyrics are meant "ironically."   

Not bloody likely.

>    Boyd Rice appeared a couple of years ago on a public access TV show
>called "Race and Reason," hosted/produced by Thom Metzger of the
>organization WAR (White Aryan Resistance).  Boyd specifically identified
>Death in June and Current 93 as "racialist" groups.  Now, Boyd is a
>prankster who talks off the top of his head a lot, but such claims are
>non-trivial, and if Douglas and/or Tibet had been mis-represented in such
>a way by Boyd, I would think they would make every attempt to deny it. 

That Boyd, he's such a kidder!  :-P

It is important to point out that "racialist" has a particular meaning on the 
right. In Britain, I believe the word is used interchangeably with "racist".
However, many radical rightists distinguish between "racism" seen as
unwarranted, generalized hatred of other races, and "racialism" seen as a
positive affirmation of one's racial identity, without any necessary hatred of
other races. So perhaps Boyd was telling the truth - as he understood it. One
can be a "racialist" without being a racist. However, I see no particular
evidence that Tibet is a "racialist". I simply don't know anything about his
political beliefs.   

>Indeed, Tibet has made his views toward Hitler known in the liner notes of
>"Hitler as Kalki," and he does NOT seem sympathetic.  But reading Douglas
>P.'s careful finessing of the subject in several interviews (including one
>in the overtly third-force magazine "The Fifth Path"), 

Interestingly, I met the editor of _The Fifth Path_ when I was living in
California. It was a social function and we did not talk much about politics.
He was a rather quiet young man dressed in black. The magazine seems as much
interested in Satanism, drugs, and the occult as in "third force" politics. And
yes, Douglas P. was rather coy in _The Fifth Path_ interview. Asked why he has
so many apparently nazi symbolisms in his work, Douglas replies that he doesn't
know what the questioner is talking about; he doesn't think about political or
other ideas in his work, he produces his work as though a man possessed,
intoxicated with the music, and so on. Indeed; but why is Douglas always
drawing *that* kind of material out of his subconcious?

>he really seems to
>be trying to have it both ways, obliquely re-assuring those who may be
>squeamish about fascism, while allowing the "true believers" to continue
>to take the symbols and lyrics at face value.  
>    In short, I think the jury is still out on DIJ's position on fascism,
>and I imagine Douglas P. prefers it that way, for reasons of his own.

Sure. Mystique is what DIJ is all about.

David Matthew Deane                     Who would remember Helen's face
deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu             Lacking the terrible halo of spears?
                                                          (Robinson Jeffers)


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!noc.near.net!news.cs.brandeis.edu!binah.cc.brandeis.edu!DEANE Wed Dec  8 19:00:24 EST 1993
Article: 32311 of rec.music.industrial
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From: deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (David Matthew Deane)
Subject: Re: Nazi Tendencies
Message-ID: <1993Dec8.183909.9701@news.cs.brandeis.edu>
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 18:39:09 GMT
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In article <2e2kat$r9o@jaws.cs.hmc.edu>, 
hthornbu@osiris.hmc.edu (Harvey Thornburg) writes:
  (deletions)
>-> And yet: "this road leads to heaven". Is this irony? I don't think
>->For one thing, it is far too heavy handed - irony requires a deft touch. 
>
>Yeah, but this was their first album; give them a break :)

I assume you are being ironic here, hence ":)". Of course the "heavy-handed"
style to which I refer is intrinsic to early DIJ and not a product of
inexperience, and is, I would argue, appropriate to the message. As to irony 
itself, Laibach has a little gem of a quote on the pitfalls and limitations 
of "irony".

  (deletions)
>As does "Till the living flesh is burned" : "And then they were shown his
>true face...blood from the race" and "State laughter": "Our distant 
>youth/Like flowers in bloom/State laughter for all of you".  

One of my favorite lines from DIJ.

>I see these 
>three songs being in general very anti-totalitarian in focus, particularly 
>with respect to the military as a total institution. 

Of course. This is consistent with a certain brand of "third position" or
European New Right thinking. A good example is of this is DIJ member Tony 
Wakeford, who was a member of a New Right cultural organization (Iona) and who,
in letters and interviews I have read, has argued for an anti-imperialist,
anti-totalitarian politics based on conservative, even rightist principles:
ethnicity, tradition, local and regional identity and autonomy, and so on.
These are certainly anti-totalitarian points of view, but that does not keep
the crass, the ignorant, and the hateful from labeling them "nazi" or
"fascist". That has been the point I have been trying to get at in these posts: 
I certainly don't think that DIJ are closet nazis, but at the same time, I
don't think that any kind of ingenious use of "irony" can somehow turn them
into politically correct automatons. Not if one examines the political
positions taken by individual DIJ members.

  (deletions)
>No, I don't think DiJ have put what they percieve as the innate human
>fascination for power/war in an exactly positive light...

I was not arguing that. The point of "tragedy" (as opposed to irony) is that it
allows one to move beyond false dichotomies.

>Indeed, when I think of the present neo-nazi movement, I cannot help but
>recall the sentiments in "State laughter" - if a real Hitler rose up again,
>they'd be the first to go...

Just as many conservatives, right-wing intellectuals, "conservative
revolutionaries", etc., were the first to go, not just the communists and those
on the left. Consider the poet Stefan George, a right-winger and elitist if
there ever was one. He was accused of glorifying war and violence, but he did
not support the Nazis and he left Germany when Hitler came to power. Nowhere 
have I been arguing that DIJ *want* another Hitler. What I have been trying to 
say is that the whole argument over alleged "nazi tendencies" obscures what 
DIJ is really trying to say. On this we agree, at least.

  (deletions)
>->That Boyd, he's such a kidder!  :-P

Observe: unsubtle attempt at irony on my part. Sigh.  :-/

  (deletions)
>"Boyd was telling the truth, as he understood it" - Sounds like another
>exploitative media prank ... Given that the American public is like
>"Racialist? Oh, that's Nazi-speak for racist - they sure have terrible
>English..."  Funny, Boyd...no not really

Your prose is a bit hard to follow here. A hint, if you want to deciper my 
meaning. The little face has its tongue sticking out, in mock gagging.
Thus:  :-P

  (deletions)
>You see, these statements are the whole beauty of the situation - the entire
>irony, the complete mystique.  I think in some ways Douglas _wants_ to have
>people think he's a nazi inside, as to avoid hypocrisy over his subtle
>insinuations that we are _all_ potential nazis somewhere deep down, lest we 
>forget when the time comes again...  Damn straight this disturbs me, but I
>can sort of see his point.  Recall also Patrick's quote: "Oh, how we laughed
>in your failure to see in us yourselves... When you scorn us you thrust a
>dagger into your own heart."  Anyway, by no means is this the only way to
>interpret Douglas, this just sums up what _I_ get out of the music.

I agree with your interpretation of the above quote. It lends itself to a
wonderful, layered series of interpretations, however. Since I do know for a
fact that at least one member of DIJ was a member of an organization that the
braindead left insists on calling "fascist", the above quote can be seen, in
addition, as a concealed barb at those who insist on seeing evil in a
particular political position, but not in other political positions. As I said,
irony is a double-edged sword and sometimes the best place to hide is in plain
sight.

>Perhaps with Boyd it's the same thing, but we all have to agree he's maybe a
>wee bit screwed in the head?

I think he's more intent on screwing up other people's heads. 

>->Sure. Mystique is what DIJ is all about.
>
>Again, agreed, although probably for different reasons.

Close enough for government work. 

David Matthew Deane                     Who would remember Helen's face
deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu             Lacking the terrible halo of spears?
                                                          (Robinson Jeffers)


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!festival!dcs.ed.ac.uk!awrc Thu Dec  9 23:36:55 EST 1993
Article: 32355 of rec.music.industrial
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From: awrc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Al Crawford)
Subject: Re: Hafler Trio
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And lo, dkletter@adobe.com (SUGAR in their vitamins?) spake unto the masses saying:
>
> yes, this is due to be released. Grey Area will release one CD with all
> of Graeme's solo work, minus the one song he did with NWW. of course,
> that is available elsewhere on CD it's just that my brain is fading too
> fast here to remember.

According to the new Mute Fine Line catalogue (thanks to Dan Clegg for the
info) the disc will contain _The Insect Musicians_ plus Revell's side of
the _Necropolis, Amphibians & Reptiles_ Wolffi tribute. As to whether it's
out yet or not, I don't know - I've been frantically searching under `I'
for weeks only to find out that it's been released as _The Musique Brut
Collection_. Time to look under `M' I guess...

-- 
			Al Crawford - awrc@dcs.ed.ac.uk
	  Department Of Computer Science, The University of Edinburgh
   Rm 1410, JCMB, Kings Buildings, Mayfield Rd, EDINBURGH, EH9 3JZ, Scotland
	     Tel: +44 (0) 31 650 5165  Fax: +44 (0) 31 667 7209


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!eff!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!festival!dcs.ed.ac.uk!awrc Fri Dec 10 13:45:45 EST 1993
Article: 32416 of rec.music.industrial
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From: awrc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Al Crawford)
Subject: Re: Dave Ball - In Strict Tempo
Message-ID: 
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And lo, ms20@carson.u.washington.edu (R. Fahl) spake unto the masses
saying:
>
> I remember hearing a few cuts off this album, about 7 or 8 years ago.  
> Sounded a little like Sakamoto's soundrack for Merry Christmas Mr. 
> Lawrence, at least that's what my feeble mind recalls...

Start worrying about the state of your memory :-)

> ANybody familiar with this album?  Is it worth pursuing?  Did it ever 
> come out on CD?

Yeah, I think I've got a review of it kicking around somewhere. It's worth
pursuing only as a curio - it's not exactly wonderful musically - but is
fun nonetheless. It came out on CD around last Christmas on Some Bizarre
(sounds about right - my review is timestamped 4th Jan 1993).

Now where  did I  put that  review...oh yeah, here it
is...

----

Dave Ball		In Strict Tempo		Some Bizzare 814 518 2 [UK]

	Total Running Time: 40 min 11 sec

	1.	Mirrors				02:22
	2.	Sincerity			05:07
	3.	Passion Of A Primitive		04:11
	4.	Strict Tempo			03:42
	5.	Man In The Man			03:44
	6.	Only Time			01:02
	7.	Life Of Love			03:00
	8.	Rednecks			04:32
	9.	American Stories		12:22

Dave Ball, currently half of The Grid, is probably best known for his time
in Soft Cell where he was "the fat one who plays the keyboards." Perhaps
not exactly the most flattering sobriquet, and certainly one that doesn't
recognise Ball's considerable contribution to Soft Cell's success but when
you compare his extremely low profile at the time with Almond's colourful
and flamboyant personality, his relative anonymity isn't surprising.

This, Ball's only solo album, now re-released on CD, originally appeared
back in 1983 at the height of Soft Cell's success. It didn't attract much
attention at the time, partly because nobody had a clue who the hell Dave
Ball was but mainly because, while this album does have its moments, it's a
rather patchy effort.

The disc is a mix of instrumental and vocal tracks, with vocals by both
Ball himself and guests. It gets off to a good start with the pleasant
string-driven instrumental "Mirrors" featuring violin and viola by Gini
Hewes (didn't she end up as Gini Ball?) and Ann Stephenson. Very nice, if a
little short. Next is the first vocal track, "Sincerity", which features
the erm, distinctive tones of Genesis P. Orridge (of Throbbing Gristle and
Psychic TV infamy). Musically it seems to tread familiar Soft Cell
territory (you could almost imagine Marc Almond is about to break in at any
moment) but Orridge's flat, deadpan monotone is curiously appropriate.
Intriguing in a strange way.

The first dud is "Passion Of A Primitive", a not-unpleasant but rather
bland instrumental that's pretty disposable. The almost-title track "Strict
Tempo" features Gavin Friday of the Virgin Prunes (what strange friends
Dave has). Although his vocal excesses do get a little annoying at times
and the lyrics are somewhat unsubtly sexual, it's an excellent track and
perversely catchy.

Genesis P. Orridge makes his second appearance on "Man In The Man" in which
he almost manages to out-sleaze even Marc Almond with his half-spoken,
half-sung lounge-lizard routine. Despite the song being written entirely
(music and lyrics) by Orridge, Ball manages to stamp it with the Soft Cell
sound, resulting in a song that matches up rather well beside the likes of
"Baby Doll" from Soft Cell's _The Art Of Falling Apart_.

"Only Time" is a good (but short) synth track, where Ball's vocals make
their first appearance. The impression we get here is that while he doesn't
have a very good voice, it's sufficient for the minimal, almost spoken
lyrics here. "Life Of Live" seems to confirm this, but is otherwise
unremarkable.

Then, alas, we reach "Rednecks", a song so bad it's wonderful. It's Ball's
attempt at faux-country & western, with the man himself on vocals. It
becomes quickly apparent that his voice is quite astonishingly bad and that
the song sounds very stupid indeed (given the subject material and style)
because Ball doesn't even attempt an American accent. It really has to be
heard - it's a cute idea for a novelty song that falls flat on its face and
then sinks without trace. Maybe with a vocalist who could sing...

"American Stories" is an overindulgent instrumental, split into several
"movements" that goes on waaaaay too long. Ball partially succeeds in his
aim of attempting to paint a picture of the seedier side of US life, and
his jazzy sounding music interspersed by appropriate tape snippets
certainly capture an American flavour, but the track is also quite
seriously boring and I rarely find myself listening to it right through.

Like I said, a mixed bag. The P. Orridge and Friday tracks work well, as
does "Mirrors". "Rednecks" may not work at all, but it certainly provides
entertainment value. The rest of the material is, however, eminently
forgettable and really not worth bothering about. There's nothing here to
really *condemn* or avoid like the plague, but the album's a little too
patchy to warrant much in the way of praise.

Erland Rating: +1

-- 
			Al Crawford - awrc@dcs.ed.ac.uk
	  Department Of Computer Science, The University of Edinburgh
   Rm 1410, JCMB, Kings Buildings, Mayfield Rd, EDINBURGH, EH9 3JZ, Scotland
	     Tel: +44 (0) 31 650 5165  Fax: +44 (0) 31 667 7209


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!emory!ogicse!cs.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!carson.u.washington.edu!boe666 Wed Dec 15 02:04:34 EST 1993
Article: 32556 of rec.music.industrial
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From: boe666@carson.u.washington.edu (Peter Werner)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Coil remix album
Message-ID: <2egqji$om8@news.u.washington.edu>
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>On the origional pressing of the CD one of the songs is labeled as "live" 
>as I understood it Coil were not a band known for touring.  Could this be 
>another "bar Maldoror" recording or is it from a real concert (I couldn't 
>tell any real difference in sound quality but you never know).

"Live" for Coil means live in the studio; I think it just means a song 
that they've done all in one take.

>If they do tour sporadically what are the chances of them touring for 
>this new album?

They don't tour, actually; here's what they have to say about it:

:M2: Do you want to perform live ever?
:
:JB: We have very mixed feelings about the whole nature of live
:performance because there are several sides to it from the point of view
:of energy distribution, but at the same time there is such a stigma for
:us involved with the notion of concerts and especially anything that
:has a sort of rock association. It's difficult for people of our limited
:resources to be able to stage something that sufficiently breaks
:through those barriers to reach a new sphere of performance. We,
:generally speaking, don't enjoy watching other people's concerts and
:really don't see why people would enjoy watching ours if they were the
:same.
:
:M2: Would you then be more interested in doing a multimedia thing?
:
:JB: If we could yeah, but even with multimedia in the conventional
:sort of indie music sense, you know of putting up a video wall, or
:screens of super-8 projections and stuff, really it's not telling people
:anything that they don't already know and haven't already seen a
:million times. Probably Hollywood has the resources to make those
:things look good, we don't really and the people that try although it's
:a valiant attempt in many cases, it's sort of doomed to failure before
:they begin I think.

(The irony of this jaundiced attitude toward rock is that Peter 
Christopherson directs rock videos and TV commercials for a living [Coil 
royalties only go so far].  He's done videos for The Firm, The The, and 
Peter Gabriel, among others.)

They have been involved in performance art/ritual events in the past, but 
these weren't concerts of any kind.  The would have pre-recorded any 
music for these events (Christopherson & Balance are the first to admit 
that they can hardly play any instrument in the conventional sense; 
Steven Thrower is the only instrumentalist among them.)  I know of one 
event they did which included Mark Almond reading poetry and John Balance 
giving himself blood enemas.  Another was a ritual invocation of the 
Black Sun which was performed by Coil in England and simultaneously by 
another performance artist in San Francisco.  I have an article on this 
in an old issue of Gnosis.  I'll bring a copy of it back with me after I 
come home from vacation and post it.

Beast of Eden


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!sage.cc.purdue.edu!jester Wed Dec 15 18:07:49 EST 1993
Article: 32581 of rec.music.industrial
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From: jester@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Jester)
Subject: LYRICS: 242 EVIL OFF (final version)
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Sender: news@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (USENET News)
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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 15:58:04 GMT
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Status: O

Here is the final version of the 242 EVIL OFF lyrics. They will be
uploaded this evening to cs.uwp.edu as well. UP EVIL final versions will
be forthcoming.

Jester
--
@BAND: Front 242
@ALBUM: 05:22:09:12 OFF
@TRANSCRIBED: pt91ja@yngve.pt.hk-r.se (Jonas Ahrentorp) Animal
              jester@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Jester) Crushed, Modern Angel, Melt
	      awrc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Al Crawford) Animal, Crushed,
					      Modern Angel, Serial Killers

@SONG: Animal

It's always the same
I'm the only one who's always left to blame
Take what you can take
Hurt is your only idea of a game
To break away
I don't have that within me
And I'm not your prey
So I bite the hand that feeds me

When all you do is break me
And put me
You put me in a cage

When I look in the mirror
All that I see
A zoo animal that wants to be free
Just get away, get away from me
'Cause I'll never be who you want me to be
No

It's always the same
It's not easy to keep myself contained
Sit back and relax
How can I when I'm going down in flames?

'Cause all you do is break me
And put me
You put me in a cage

(Chorus)

Get away get away get away get away

(Chorus)

All you do is break me
And put me
You put me in a cage

When I look in the mirror
I just want to be free
Want to be free
I just want to be free

@SONG: Modern Angel

I never said those things you buried
Of all the liars you'll be so cynical
The modern angel's so hard to come by
I hate to touch your stinking cur

There are things that one should never see
There are things that one should never see

I don't know what you've started saying now
Give me no conscience, can't listen to bodies
Stay low, lock the door
I know there's more than just an aching in store

I want a gun that's sexual
You wanted size
I'll give you a big tour
Big crane grabs your brain
Pain is a gas engages your force

There are things that one should never see
There are things that one should never see

Your modern angels gone to ruin
Ignorance thinking about stealing the world
As the century fades from view
She give a fuck if you reach twenty-two.

@SONG: Serial Killers Don't Kill 

Here, under your bed I wait for you
'Cause I know, I know you want me to
Skeleton in your closet was never so true
You're so very pretty when you're turning blue

When I hear the sound of your voice
You leave me no choice

Be myself, wanna be myself
Be myself, wanna be myself
Be myself, wanna be myself
Be myself, wanna be myself

I'm feeling lucky tonight
I know your mother thinks I'm society's parasite
Well you can leave your mother home
You know how much I like to be alone

And when I hear the sound of her voice
She leaves me no choice

Be myself, wanna be myself
Be myself, wanna be myself
Be myself, wanna be myself

Here, under your dress I wait for you
'Cause I know, I know you want me to

When I hear the sound of her voice
She leaves me no choice

Be myself, wanna be myself
Be myself, wanna be myself
Be myself, wanna be myself
Be myself, wanna be myself
Be myself, wanna be myself

Why can't you go, let me be myself

@SONG: Crushed

Turning me
My conscience is calling me
It wants to shake the beast
The snake is twisting,
My thoughts into needling extremities

Reaction breaks me into fractions
Taking all my energies
Seizing my extremities
So much that I cannot feel now

This heavy heart
Heart that I carry
Still holds the weight of you
And when I fall
As I always do
I'm crushed by the absence of you

Perfection is there
And the expression a stare
A face that leaves no trace of wear and tear
True beauty is cold

Love and hate and human sexual nature
This power is sustained by endless violence and pain
A cycle I can't understand

I'm tired of emotions
They bare me with distortions
They cut me
Screaming "Fuck me"
Wipe them all away now
Let them see through eyes made of stone

@SONG: Melt

Here, every eye is a mirror
Here, every act is a crime
Here, every presence a poison
Here, every wall is a spy

When you say turn,
They all start to turn
When you say dive,
They're all on their knees

Chorus:
We're battling to cut me and let me astray
I don't want to fall into your kind of way
I will never sway

Here, every move is an errand
Here, every breath is a fact

Turn!
Starve!
Turn!
Die!

Here, every ear is a danger
Here, every smile is a trap
Here...

(Chorus)

I know you'll never take me
Don't even think you'll break me
Be sure you never take me
I'm gonna make you see

Here, every look is a murder
Here, every word is a bite

Turn!
Starve!
Turn!
Die!

(Chorus)
-- 
"Smash the control images, smash the control machines." William S. Burroughs
PGP 2.3 PUBLIC KEY available upon request


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!festival!dcs.ed.ac.uk!awrc Fri Dec 24 23:46:59 EST 1993
Article: 32918 of rec.music.industrial
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Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!festival!dcs.ed.ac.uk!awrc
From: awrc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Al Crawford)
Subject: Re: Where are SPK now ?
Message-ID: 
Sender: cnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk (UseNet News Admin)
Organization: The University Of Edinburgh - Department Of Computer Science
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Status: O

And lo, etinzon@osf.org (Gabriel Etinzon) spake unto the masses saying:
>
> Where are SPK nowadays indeed ?

Graeme Revell's living in LA and doing soundtracks. The most recent one I'm
aware of was the soundtrack to the Jean-Claude Van Damme film "Hard
Target". I believe he's also involved in one or two things with Brian
Lustmord.

-- 
			Al Crawford - awrc@dcs.ed.ac.uk
	  Department Of Computer Science, The University of Edinburgh
   Rm 1410, JCMB, Kings Buildings, Mayfield Rd, EDINBURGH, EH9 3JZ, Scotland
	     Tel: +44 (0) 31 650 5165  Fax: +44 (0) 31 667 7209


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!EU.net!sunic!sics.se!eua.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!etxsahm Fri Dec 24 23:47:17 EST 1993
Article: 32919 of rec.music.industrial
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From: etxsahm@eua.ericsson.se (Marten Sahlen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Where are SPK now ?
Date: 23 Dec 1993 14:13:55 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
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References: <2fbr90$gm8@paperboy.osf.org> 
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Status: O

In rec.music.industrial we just heard awrc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Al Crawford) say:
> 
>And lo, etinzon@osf.org (Gabriel Etinzon) spake unto the masses saying:
>>
>> Where are SPK nowadays indeed ?
>
>Graeme Revell's living in LA and doing soundtracks. The most recent one I'm
>aware of was the soundtrack to the Jean-Claude Van Damme film "Hard
>Target". I believe he's also involved in one or two things with Brian
>Lustmord.
>

Just for the sake of completion, if anyone's interested, here is an excerpt
from Graeme Revell's entry in the movie database server at ibmpcug.co.uk.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

       Composer Credits:  Revell, Graeme

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Name:

  Revell, Graeme

Biography:

  There is no biography data available for this person as yet. To write some
  contact Mark Harding  for a submission guide

Filmography as Composer:

  Dead Calm (1989) (AAA)
  Hand That Rocks the Cradle, The (1991)
  Love Crimes (1991)
  Traces of Red (1992)
  Body of Evidence (1993)
  Crush, The (1993)
  Hard Target (1993)
  Hear No Evil (1993)


-- 
__ _  _  __ _____ ___ __ _    >>>>--------------Marten Sahlen---------------<<<<
 _| |  |  _| _ _ |_ _| _| |   >>>---Ellemtel Telecommunication Systems Lab---<<<
 _| |  |  _| | | |  |  _| |   >>--------Email: etxsahm@eua.ericsson.se--------<<
__|__|__|__|_|_|_| _| __|__|  >-----Phone +46 8 7273849, Fax +46 8 6478276-----<


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.claremont.edu!osiris!hthornbu Tue Feb 22 21:43:51 EST 1994
Article: 36012 of rec.music.industrial
Xref: galois alt.gothic:13285 rec.music.industrial:36012 alt.music.alternative:10431
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From: hthornbu@osiris.hmc.edu (Harvey Thornburg)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic,rec.music.industrial,alt.music.alternative
Subject: Death in June info 1.0 (long)
Date: 19 Feb 1994 08:27:18 GMT
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA USA
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Status: O


(version 1.0)

This post is intended to provide perhaps a more thorough overview of DIJ for
those interested in where to start, or those who have a few releases already
but find Stewart's all-encompassing discography a bit overwhelming...
This is by no means an authoritative document and comprises about a
50/50 mix of fact and opinion. Discussion/new information welcome! 

Basic History
-------------
Death in June formed sometime around 1980-1981 in the wake of the
dissolution of Crisis.  Douglas Pearce and Tony Wakeford were leftover from 
Crisis; Patrick Leagas/O'Kill was the other addition.  By the time of "Nada" 
Tony Wakeford had left, presumably because Douglas wanted to explore 
different types of musical expression. He is quite active today as Sol 
Invictus. Anyway, by this time Douglas had befriended some of the early PTV 
crowd (most notably David Tibet, who formed Current 93 in 1983).  By the 
time the group had realigned, and issued forth the wonderful _Nada_, Patrick 
Leagas supposedly "ran out of steam" and then left to become Six(th) Comm.  
After this Douglas began associating quite heavily with the entire World 
Serpent crowd (Tibet, John Balance, Rose McDowall, Boyd Rice) although to 
my knowledge DIJ has never worked with Steven Stapleton, Michael Cashmore, 
or Peter Christopherson. Since then Douglas has utilized the talents of his 
friends to make DIJ into a pure manifestation of his own thoughts and 
visions, with variable success weighted towards most recent material.
DIJ should be of interest to anyone who likes Dead Can Dance, Coil, Current
93, etc.

(Main Albums)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

1983 -  The Guilty Have No Pride
--------------------------------
	Start with a basic Joy Division-sounding base ... add timpani,
trumpet and all kinds of interesting basslines and you have early DIJ.
Vocalists basically declaim enigmatic lyrics over this thunderous and 
sometimes overbearing onslaught. Rating: 4/5 

1984 -  Burial 
--------------
- 5 extra studio songs plus live side. Haven't heard, but am
kicking myself for not getting this for $20 when I saw it last summer!!!

1985 - Nada!
------------
	Here matters take a more electronic/industrial twist, while
paradoxically also including plenty of folk guitar and chant tapes.
The entirety is executed with such conviction and power that _Nada!_ is
among my top five works of all time (by anybody!) Rating: 5+/5

1986 - Night and Fog
--------------------
	Supposedly post-Nada live album. Have seen for $40.

1986 - The World That Summer
----------------------------
	Although Douglas has remarked quite positively about the liberating
influence of Patrick's departure, the content here suggests otherwise.
There are some worthwhile tracks, but most of the (double) album floats
along moodily without achieving much in terms of intensity or conviction.
Because there are _some_ redeeming features, I would recommend this, but
only after you've picked up everything else. Rating: 2/5

1987 - Brown Book
-----------------
	This album finds the group doing fully-developed folk music, with
wonderfully catchy melodies and nice duets with Rose McDowall.  However, the
lyrical content is not for the humorless/squeamish. Rating: 2.5/5 (due to
ever-diminished "accessability")

1987 - Oh How We Laughed
------------------------
	Live document form 1982.  Supposedly rather primitive, "sounds like
Joy Division live"...

1989 - The Wall of Sacrifice
----------------------------
	Hopefully this is supposed to be very good, including some major
(albeit silly) contributions from Boyd Rice. I'll get this when I can cough
up the $25 for another DIJ album.  I've heard "Hullo Angel" as it appears on
Current 93 "Crooked Crosses..." and with that I am quite impressed.
	

1989 - 93 Dead Sunwheels
------------------------
	Remixes from _Nada_. Have yet to purchase. Supposed to include many
samples from "The Prisoner" tv series, according to Douglas.

1992 - But, What Ends When the Symbols Shatter
----------------------------------------------
	This album finds much more diverse "folk" instrumentation than any
previous, employing both old (David Tibet) and new (James Mannox) World
Serpent assistance.  Lyrics show greater insight and depth than ever before,
addressing critically the fate of Man (and the Nietzchean superman) in the
modern world. A powerful, enticing masterpiece - will leave you constantly
thinking days after each listen. Rating: 5/5 

1993 - Something is Coming
--------------------------
	Another thing I have yet to pick up - supposedly a live document of
the 1992 Croatian tour plus some compiled studio stuff. If suddenly tommorow
I found myself $100 richer I would actually get some more of this stuff!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Note on CD rereleases
---------------------
All the aforementioned material exists on CD except the "Burial" and "Night
and Fog" albums.  DIJ are quite generous as to including associated singles,
b-sides etc. along with rerelease of each album.  Becuase of this, there is
really no way to issue "The World That Summer" on a single CD, so they
decided to divide the tracks, including remixes etc. from this and Brown
Book on two separate CD's, "The Corn Years" and "Cathedral of Tears".  To
make things more confusing, a "Cathedral of Tears" CDS also exists.


A Quick Note on Related Projects
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current 93
----------
    Of all "related projects" I would recommend Current 93 the most.  Their
work ranges from moody folk music to intense catacomb screams.  Most of it
is very silly while also taking a serious hold of your emotions and making
you think about all kinds of things.  David Tibet's poetry as of late has
been getting even better, and should be read both as a part of the music and
on its own as "serious" literary work. Since I own almost all of their
albums, I will prepare a complete discography and a review listing very much
like this one sometime in the future.  As far as albums go, I'd recommend
everything except Earth Covers Earth.  Steven Stapleton of NWW has a major
hand in most C93 projects.

Sol Invictus
------------
    Tony Wakeford makes rather heavy, gloomy folk music with all kinds of
guitars and effects, flute, and cello. Very much worth checking into; I'd
recommend both "Trees in Winter" and "Killing Tide."  Actually, if you
desire even more "experimental" stuff, he has an excellent collaboration
with Steven (NWW) called "Revenge of the Selfish Shellfish".

Coil
----
    I'm assuming if you're reading this you already know a great deal about
Coil. Their early releases (Scatology, Horse Rotovator) would probably be of
greater interest, as lately they've been trafficking in the techno stuff
(albeit with much greater success that PTV!) New album "Angelic
Conversation" due out 3/7. Finally!!!!!!!!


Sixth Comm
----------
    I don't know much about this group except that it must be good, for
Patrick made such wonderful contributions (IMHO) to DIJ. As of late, he's
really gotten into the Norse pagan stuff; Freya Aswynn, who is a leading
light in this realm, is a major contributor.  I have only the "Fruits of
Yggdrasil" CD, which is basically Freya reading selections from the Edda 
over Patrick's musical interpretation.  The only problem is while the music 
is quite good, it is very low in the mix, and I have a limited and waning 
interest in the Norse stuff.  If anyone can recommend a good place to start 
for some early 6th comm material (without Freya) please tell me as I cannot 
afford to just buy random stuff. Unlike some people I know...

Boyd Rice/NON
-------------
    Used to be a major innovator in the industrial noise scene (refer to
"Industrial Culture Handbook" for cool interview, has since IMHO degenerated
into silliness. You might try asking somebody who is more of a fan...

(was this supposed to be short???)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

References
----------
	For further reference, please see the recent Propaganda article
posted by Kenneth Ruiz (in case you missed it, it's on ftp.maths.dc.ie in
/pub/music/gothic/interviews...). And, of course, Stewart Tame's excellent
"Shoddy DiJ Discography" which he updates and posts every so often. I always
keep the latest copy.

Enjoy...
------------------------------------------------|------------------------------
"categories strain, crack, and sometimes break  | Harvey D. Thornburg
 step out of the space provided"                | hthornbu@osiris.ac.hmc.edu
------------------------------------------------|----------------------------




From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!nntp.ucsb.edu!mcl!uaceohrt Fri Feb 25 19:08:48 EST 1994
Article: 36255 of rec.music.industrial
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From: uaceohrt@mcl.ucsb.edu (Kenneth Ruiz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Death In June interview (long)
Date: 25 Feb 1994 11:15:40 GMT
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Greetings - here is the article published in the Fifth Path and in
cheezoid Propaganda 'goth' rag...

It is an interview with Douglas Pearce and is probably almost two years old
now...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's not easy being a fan of Death In June; they have no
videos out, they rarely if ever tour, their records are
extremey difficult to find, and the band rarely appears
on the covers of them. Death In June is more a state of
mind than a band. It is as much a cultural experience as it
is a muslcal one. Death In June is a world view conceived
by one man - Douglas Pearce. And because this view and
the music it's set to is so hard to track down, much less in-
terpret, any fan of Death In June must, by necessity, be a
fanatic. It's not by accident, but by design.


PROPAGANDA: What do you consider the Mission/Message
of Death In June?

DOUGLAS PEARCE: Maybe to wipe the slate clean? It is
mine to exercise and to exorcise in how I see fit. It is an
instinctive act. I do not analyze the reasons behind why. I
do not think I really understand the meaning of "message"
or "mission." It just is! Nature does not need justification.
Has this view changed at all with time?
    Yes and no. Certainly, some of the earlier material veered
towards falling into the trap of being easily bracketed. But
I still think it avoided that. I despise groups who preach.
They are normally the ones who should be preached to. They
have nothing to say!


    Is there a particular story behind the name Death In June?

    During the recording of our first Ep HEAVEN STREET,
we still had not yet settled upon a name. I misheard some-
thing Patrick Leagas said and my version was Death In June.
we all immedjately knew that was the name. It was as though
it had been thrown at us. It had a variety of connotations
all of which were pertinent to us at the time. It was per-
fect and still is.


    What is the significance of the number six with Death In
June? Does it have to do with "The Prisoner"?

    Quite simply, the "6" refers to the 6th month of the year,
June. It has nothing to do with "The Prisoner,'' even though
I was a great fan of that series and used some speech from
it during live performances and on the remixes featured on
93 DEAD SUNWHEELS. The symbolism is purely coincidental.


    Why did the group split up? What ideological influences
dld each member have?

    "Split up" really isn't the right phrase. By that I assume
you mean why have a series of departures over the years
rather than the group being no longer? Since 1985, I have
been the only official member of the group, and the bulk of
the material has come out since then. Tony Wakeford was
the first to leave after Patrick and myself had decided that
he was no longer keeping up with where we wanted to take
Death In June. He was not very open to new musical ideas
and generally his interest had waned. Even though he was
still with us, he was no longer "with us." That was at the
very beginning of '84. That was a very important turning
point for D.l.J. Even though we had restructured the group
musically, Tony's departure acted as a catalyst to the both
of us. This happened at about the same time as me meeting
David Tibet at one of D.l.J.'s concerts in London and was a
fantastically creative and interesting period for all of us.
   It was probably because it was such a good period that
Patrick and I did part company. The recordings culminated
with the release of NADA! in March '85 and a variety of
really good concerts both here and in Europe. After perform-
ing six dates in Italy, which probably showed Patrick and m-
self performing together better than ever before, we returned
to England and he just disappeared. At a time when we were
selling more records than ever before, getting more offers of
performances than ever before, getting more critical acclaim
than ever before, writing better than ever before, he just ran
out of steam. Basically, for the few weeks that Patrick dis-
appeared, everything was put on hold. Whilst I was filled with
loads of energy and, rarely for me, optimism, Patrick had
suddenly burned out. He seemed exhausted with the situation,
and when we eventually had a meeting, it was agreed that he
should leave the group. We had both come to that decision
even before the meeting. That was in May of '85. Because
by then, we were beginning to make a living out of the group.
There were serious decisions to make. The position of D.l.J.
had to be consolidated. Whilst I do not doubt that it was
destiny that Patrick should leave D.l.J., I still wonder what
could have been done had he stayed. We have similar "visions".
But, perhaps I needed that extra responsibility of my "SELF."
Death In June has always been of an ideological "oneness."


    Why does Death In June appear so often faceless, masked
or backturned on the albums?

    The work itself was always deemed more important than
the cultivation of individual egos or personalities. Symbols
are more suggestive of D.l.J.'s work than bland mug-shots.


    Could you tell us about the other people and projects
you work with and how you started working with them?
[Davld Tibet & Rose McDowall of Current 93, John Balance
of Coil, Boyd Rice, Nikolas Schreck, etc.]

    David Tibet and other PTV illuminati began to come along
to some of our concerts in London. Eventually, we talked at
a D.l.J. concert that had been organized by Alan McGee, later
of Creation Record, [who] was then working for British Rail. We
seemed to get on very well and the suggestion was made that
we should start writing together. That would have been in the
Autumn of 1983. In 1986, I moved in with Tibet, who lived in
the cellar of this large, old Victorian house in North London.
>From there I began to get to know these other people such
up as Rose and John, although I had already met them in the
studio or at photo sessions. During this period, SWASTIKAS
FOR NODDY was being written and recorded, so there was
postal contact with Boyd for that project. He was already
aware of D.l.J. so when I suggested he should make some
contribution to THE WALL OF SACRIFICE, he jumped at the
chance. That came about a couple of years later, however.
Some of BROWN BOOK was also beginning to be recorded 
during this period, so it was only natural to use some of the
same people. Not only did I admire them musically before I
had even met them, but I was also fortunate enough to like
them as people. I was introduced to Nikolas at the book
launch of his "Manson File" at Compendium Books in London.
We got on fine so I invited him down to the recordings of THE
WALL OF SACRIFICE which had just started. David Tiffen
and Andrea James of SIE were introduced to us via an early
follower of the group who had written a review of our first
peformances for their fanzine "Certain Gesture." They wanted
to do a feature so they came along to take some photos, and
things grew from there. We get along very well together.


   What dld you do betore D.l.J?

Music-wise I was in a group called Crisis, along with Tony
Wakeford. That lasted for about three years, and then after 
releasing a number of records and probably on the verge of
being quite successful, we split up in May '80. Some of the
other members went on to form Theater Of Hate. I went 
to work for Rough Trade for about four years.


   What records and musicians do you listen to or have 
inspired you?

I listen to loads of different things, but certainly some of 
the most influencial things I've ever listened to are 
"Forever Changes" by Love, Scott Walker's "Scott IV," 
Ennio Morricone's soundtracks to the "Dollar" movies by 
Sergio Leone, "Closer" by Joy Division, the Charles 
Manson Lp, Wagner's "The Ring," a lot of Beatles, the
Velvet Underground...


   What books and movies have influenced you?

Definately all the work of Jean Genet, especially 
"Funeral Rites," and some of the work of Yukio 
Mishima, in particular "The Decay Of The Angel." 
These authors really encouraged me in my style of 
writing/living. Films that have really made an impression
on me include Taxi Driver, The Night Porter, Apocalypse
Now, The Night Of The Hunter, Blue Velvet, The 
Tenant, Chants D'amour, Possession The Haunting, The 
Misfits, The World That Summer, Come And See, etc.


   What do you think of Nietzche?

Last year I spent three months in Australia and towards
the end of that period I became very depressed. I 
remember reading Nietzche's "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
in Hyde Park in Sydney and somehow it consoled me to
 my despair. I have just looked at soe notes I made in 
the book; I wrote, "I want to become destruction." 
Those were my thoughts on him.


   How do you feel about the idea of a united Europe?

    I think it's the most brilliant and natural thing to happen,
but unfortunately I think Britain will be left out in the cold.
But like anywhere. it's individuals that count and make the
difference. If the soul has departed there is not much of in-
terest within a united economic community itself. That's just
a businessman's paradise. However, the idea itself may well
help trigger bigger and more interesting ideals.


    How do you feel about the reunification of Germany?

    The same really applies to this question as well. The
division of a country like Germany was always an unnatural
state of affairs and the fantastically sudden course of events
in Europe may well inspire all sorts of things. Perhaps the
unconscious European soul is beginning to assert itself again.
The change has been so sudden, surely there was something
more than conventional politics involved. Something more
esoteric, something more powerful.


    You seem very interested in Germany and German sym-
bols - what is your ethnic backgrourd?

    Typically British, of Anglo-Celt descent.


    What is your interest in Runes and Northern European
Magic, and what do you think of Aleister Crowley and the
OTO?

    I'd always been interested in magic, but had done nothing
serious about it until I met David Tibet. He then introduced
me to the works of Crowley, and I used that as a spring-
board. The Runes had a much more natural attraction for
me, so I became more involved with them. They are now an
everyday part of my life. I've been through a very intense
period with them, but they are much more part of the fur-
niture now. However, things like that always remain in flux
and 1 always retain my respect for them. They are never
not there.
    Your recent works seem to be about the cycle of detruc-
tion in nature and how it pertains to the individual and west-
ern culture. Do you think you'll ever do anything about the
creation cycle? Also, you use a lot of Nordic pagan sym-
bolism, yet it never seems to enter into your music.
    I've never thought of my work like that, and I'd like to
know how you came to that conclusion, because I think it's
fascinating and interesting as an opinion unto itself. My work
has always been instinctive, and when it happens, I'm literal-
ly intoxicated with it. It's like a dream and much of the
most important parts of it have almost been literally dic-
tated from dreams. A surreal reality. An exercise and a ex-
orcise No gain without pain. There's nothing ugly or hate-
ful - there iust is!


    What countries seem to have the blggest interest In D.l.J.

    Probably the most important countries for sales at the
moment are France, Italy and Germany. Almost everything
sells on export because of the lack of live performances in
this country. The British are used to seeing their groups, es-
pecially those who don't get radio play, like ourselves. If you
don't constantly perform, you become one of the forgotten.
Only the really fanatical keep in touch. Which is not a bad
thing. The reason why Japan was chosen to break cover was
because of my interest in Yukio Mishima. Someone offered
some performances over there, and what better way of get-
ting to the place where Mishima came from. Despite being
very ill with the Russian flu, I dragged myself out of bed
bed to spend Xmas Day 1988 besides Mishima's grave. That
was a good experience. There's a lot of interest in groups
like Death In June and Current 93 all over the world, and
Japan just happened to be the place where we went.


Why don't you do more live shows?

    Because I'm the only true member of D.l.J., the logistical
problems of performing live are obvious. The "group" does
not have regular rehearsals, and despite there being an ob-
vious choice for live membership, people like Rose and Tibet
have their own lives and careers, and it's difficult to get
everything and everybody in the right place at the right time.
On top of that, the NER "empire" has to be maintained and
new records have to be written. Where is the time for live
concerts? Considering the amount of problems they involve,
they have never been that i mportant to me. Death In June
was never going to be a touring group, although I must ad-
mit that the gaps of time between performances have even
astounded me. However, time just speeds by. In fact, I am
sure that over the past decade, there has been some time
distortio occuring of some sort. Time itself is now shorter,
I'm sure of it.


Do you think there will ever be a Death In June video?

I did do a video specifically for a B.B.C. TV program,
but they decided not to show it. One day, I do intend to
put a D.l.J. video together which will become commercially
available. It's just a matter of finding the time and the
inspiration, that's all.


      Wast do you consider the biggest problems in this age?

    "Souless today, and soulless tomorrow. We struggle for
the joy that life is haunted by."

-----------------------------------------------
     For more informstion on Death In June and their
releases, send a S.A.S.E (air mail) to:

DEATH IN JUNE      
B M JUNE
London WCIN 3XX
England

6666666666666666666666666666666666666666666
After this is a blurb about Boyd Rice's _Music, Martinis, 
and Misanthropy_, with a picture of Boyd and Michael 
Moynihan.

At the very end is it says "The truth doesn't mind 
stepping on a few toes." This is a quote from the liner
notes of _M,M, & M_, not a DiJ quote as the magazine 
claims...

Heilige Tod!		_O_ The 
			 |  Ace of
			 |  Hearts			   
--
"This is the new contempt of the world...		_O_ The
This is the new LOVE of the world..."			 |  Ace of
			- Boyd Rice			 |  Hearts
66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Fri Mar  4 16:17:04 EST 1994
Article: 36675 of rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: priapus@delphi.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: William S. Burroughs == industrial?
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 94 23:20:59 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 107
Message-ID: 
References: <94058.154115SXL136@psuvm.psu.edu> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1c.delphi.com
X-To: David Watson 
Status: O

David Watson  writes:
 
>The last album Throbbing Gristle's Industrial label put out was a
>collction of WSB's tape experiments (along the lines of _Breakthrough_--
>same album?) called _Nothing Here Now But the Recordings_.  If anyone
>knows any more about it (exact contents, etc.), could you please post
>about it?
 
Under the title "From the archives of William S. Burroughs 'Nothing Here
Now but the Recordings'", the catalog number is Industrial Records IR0016
The album was cut in January 1981.  Co-producers were James Graurerholz
and Peter Christopherson.  Engineer was James Grauerholz.  Project co-
ordination in the U.K. was done by Peter Christopherson & Genesis P-Orridge.
Project co-ordination in the U.S.A. was done by James Grauerholz.  Sleeve
design and photo were by Peter Christopherson.  Sleeve notes were by
Genesis P-Orridge.  Contents include:
 
Side One (22.07)
 
 
1965 or thereabouts.  Everyone on board was killed when the plane crashed en
route from the Midwest to San Francisco.  Several days later there was a
big air crash at Clark Airbase in Manila in the Philipines.  Once the pilot of a
plane Burroughs too from Tangier to Gibraltar was named Captain Clark.
 
2. The Saints Go Marching Through All The Popular Tunes (Early 1960s)
 
3. Summer Will" (Early 1960s)
 
4. Outside The Pier Prowed Like Electric Turtles (Early 1960s)
 
5. The Total Taste Is Here - News Cut-up (Early 1960s)
 
6. Choral Section - Backwards (Circa 1965) - Simply a tape of the Hallelujah
Chorus played backwards.
 
7. We See The Future Through The Binoculars of the People (Circa 1978) -
Text of a lecture given by W.S.B. to the Kerouac School of Disembodied
Poetics, Naropa Institute, Boulder, Colorado in Summer 1976 originally entitled
"It Belongs To The Cucumbers" cut-up with phrases from the book "Breakthrough
- Voices From The Dead" by Konstantin Raudive with which the lecture dealt.
The cut-up was made in 1978 in Boulder on a borrowed taperecorder.  Basically
Raudive deals with the phenomena of intelligible phrases spoken in different
languages by often identifiable people appearing on blank tape run through
a machine at high record level in an otherwise silent environment.  In other
words no apparent input.
 
8. Just Checking Your Summer Recordings (Early 1960s) - The tune is "Brother
can't you spare a dime?"
 
Side Two (22.41)
 
1. Creepy Letter - Cut-up at The Beat Hotel In Paris (Circa 1959) - Earliest
surviving cut-up tape.  Recorded during a conversation between Brion Gysin
(the person who originally conceived the cut-up technique), Gregory Corso,
William S. Burroughs and probably Sinclair Beiles (unconfirmed).  This
tape was made in the Beat Hotel, 9 Rue Git le Coeur, Paris in 1959.  A
letter from London dealing with film business connected to Antony Balch
is spontaneously cut-up after an incantation to "se what it really says".
 
2.  Inching - "Is This Machine Recording?" (Circa 1965) - Inching tech-
nique involved manually pulling the recorder whilst recording, or while re-
recording, inch by inch. "I.S. is Ian Sommerville."
 
3.  Handkerchief Masks - News Cut-up (Early 1960s) - Examples of the cut-
up technique applied to radio and TV news broadcasts are included as
demonstrations not as finished works in themselves.  The theory is that the
future "leaks through" that the real message can be revealed.  Here is a
U.S. President on trial for perjury before a Grand Jury over 10 years
before Watergate.
 
4.  Word Falling - Photo Falling (Early 1960s) - Ian Sommerville operated
the echo on this track which uses text from Nove Express, a cut-up book
[whoops, I meant Nova] by W.S.B.
 
5.  Throat Microphone Experiment (Circa 1965) - These were experiments
carried out holding a microphone against the throat whlst talking in the
hope of recording sub-vocal speech.  Burroughs himself notes that whilst
he has no doubt that sub-vocal speech occurs, the equipment he used then
and the microphones accessible to us even now fail to register this on
tape.  "All we got were some interesting noises."
 
6. "It's About Time To Identify Oven Area" (Early 1960s)
 
7.  Last Words of Hassan Sabbah (1960-61) - Hassan Sabbah "The Old Man
Of The Mountain" was the leader of a fanatical fraternity in the
eleventh century A.D. that lent its name, the "hashasheen" to the
concept of assassination.  His base was a castle on Mount Alamut in
Northern Persia.  This Text by William S. Burroughs is an expansion
of a section in Nova Express written and read onto tape in the Empress
Hotel, London 1960-1961.  This hotel has since been demolished.  The
tape was intended to illustrate a condition of advanced paranoia.
Brion Gysin has visited Mount Alamout, now a ruin.
 
"From the archives of William S. Burroughs 'Nothing Here Now but the
Recordings'" is not "Break Through In Grey Room."  The cuts on that
CD include: 1.) K-9 Was in Combat with the Alien Mind-Screens,
2.) Origin and Theory of the Tape Cut-Ups, 3.) Recalling All Active
Agents, 4.) Silver Smoke of Dreams, 5.) Junky Relations, 6.) Joujouka,
7.) Curse Go Back, 8.) Present Time Exercises, 9.) Joujouka,
10.) Working with the Popular Forces, 11.) Interview with Mr. Martin,
12.) Joujouka, 13.) Sound Piece, 14.) Joujouka, 15.) Burroughs Called
the Law.
 
>"A man is measured by the depth of his anger."--Eddie
 
You measure men your way, I'll measure them my way - Priapus


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!das-news.harvard.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!mason Mon Mar  7 19:30:47 EST 1994
Article: 36868 of rec.music.industrial
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!das-news.harvard.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!mason
From: mason@netcom.com (Mason Jones)
Subject: Re: Hunting Lodge
Message-ID: 
Organization: Charnel House
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <1994Mar2.061205.13217@adobe.com> <2l1ge6$doj@jaws.cs.hmc.edu> 
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 08:24:38 GMT
Lines: 36
Status: O

priapus@delphi.com wrote:
: Harvey Thornburg  writes:
:  
: >>yet. it may be the re-issue of TRIBAL WARNING SHOT
:  
: Oh please! I invoke all the shadow demons! Re-issue TRIBAL
: WARNING SHOT!  It is THE Hunting Lodge recording - not to
: be missed (though I do like carnivora also.)

Your invocations are sufficient. The "Necropolis" CD is indeed the
long-awaited re-issue of "Nomad Souls" with the "Tribal Warning Shot"
12-inch tacked on for good measure. I just got this info tonight,
so I'll get my copy tomorrow and post details if there's anything
funny about it.

Someone asked if the stuff is good. No, it's great! Get thee to
a record store and pick up "Necropolis" post-haste. Why is it
called that, instead of "Nomad Souls"? Dunno, but apparently Lon's
a bit peeved about the weird name change, which Uwe at Dark Vinyl
seemingly did without consulting with the band.

: Incidentally, I saw them perform in the mid-80s at the Market
: Street Cinema here in S.F.  I was one of the most noisy, brilliant,
: percussive shows I have ever seen.

Yeah, I saw them perform at the Strand Theater in 1989, and it was
still pretty cool, though it was the "8-Ball" material instead of
the "Nomad Souls" material.


<====================================================================>
   Mason Jones               Charnel Music
   mason@netcom.com          P.O. Box 170277, San Francisco, CA
                             94117-0277    Phone/fax (415) 664-1829
  Web catalog: http://web.cps.msu.edu/~cookeri1/charnel.catalog.html
<====================================================================>


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!paperboy.osf.org!think.com!cass.ma02.bull.com!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!mason Mon Mar  7 19:30:57 EST 1994
Article: 36869 of rec.music.industrial
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!paperboy.osf.org!think.com!cass.ma02.bull.com!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!mason
From: mason@netcom.com (Mason Jones)
Subject: Re: Hunting Lodge
Message-ID: 
Organization: Charnel House
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <1994Mar2.061205.13217@adobe.com> <2l1ge6$doj@jaws.cs.hmc.edu>  
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 07:50:05 GMT
Lines: 40
Status: O

Mason Jones (mason@netcom.com) wrote:
: priapus@delphi.com wrote:
: :  
: : Oh please! I invoke all the shadow demons! Re-issue TRIBAL
: : WARNING SHOT!  It is THE Hunting Lodge recording - not to
: : be missed (though I do like carnivora also.)

: Your invocations are sufficient. The "Necropolis" CD is indeed the
: long-awaited re-issue of "Nomad Souls" with the "Tribal Warning Shot"
: 12-inch tacked on for good measure. I just got this info tonight,
: so I'll get my copy tomorrow and post details if there's anything
: funny about it.

Okay, here's the info:
	Hunting Lodge "Necropolis" (Dark Vinyl DV #17)
	1. Tribal Warning Shot (Studio Version)
	2. Nomad Souls
	3. Beautiful Ugly
	4. Born of Fire
	5. The Wolf Hour
	6. Rhythm Cage
	7. God Loves the Rock Stars
	8. Become a Commercial Interrupting
	9. Nomad Souls (Never Ending Version)
	10. Tribal Warning Shot (Live Version)
Tracks 1 and 10 are from the "Tribal Warning Shot" 12" single, the
others are from the "Nomad Souls" LP, both from S/M Operations.

The liner notes consist of one essay by Graeme Revell and one by
the band.

Distribution in the U.S. is via Soleilmoon (soleilmoon@aol.com).


<====================================================================>
   Mason Jones               Charnel Music
   mason@netcom.com          P.O. Box 170277, San Francisco, CA
                             94117-0277    Phone/fax (415) 664-1829
  Web catalog: http://web.cps.msu.edu/~cookeri1/charnel.catalog.html
<====================================================================>


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!ericom!eua.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!etxsahm Tue Mar  8 22:12:40 EST 1994
Article: 37033 of rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!ericom!eua.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!etxsahm
From: etxsahm@eua.ericsson.se (Marten Sahlen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: spk question (or, i'm confused!)
Date: 7 Mar 1994 11:34:38 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <2lf3ge$qfp@euas20.eua.ericsson.se>
References:   
NNTP-Posting-Host: euas09c24.eua.ericsson.se
Status: O

In rec.music.industrial we just heard sclover@swell.actrix.gen.nz (Stephen Clover) say:
> 
>it should also be noted at this point i know _nothing_ almost about spk.
>recommendations? :)
>

I'll repost parts of a posting made by Thomas Jelonek about two years ago. I don't
know of Thomas is still on the net, but this will give you a good introduction
to SPK.

From: thomas@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Thomas Jelonek)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: SPK info wanted
Date: 13 Nov 91 23:49:32 GMT

SPK (aka Systems Planning Korporation, Surgical Penis Klinik, Socialist Patients 
Kollektiv) is an Australian band (actually the leader is from New Zealand) and was 
probably the most dynamic, extreme and intelligent exponents of `industrial' music.  
Their first four albums: Information Overload Unit, Auto-da-fe, Leichenshrei and 
Dekompositions are brilliant. The best of these four is Auto-da-fe is a must (if you 
can find it) -- it is very harsh and is a collection of singles released in the late 
70's and early 80's.

The ep Dekompositions marked a turning point in the direction of SPK.  Besides Graeme 
Revell most of the members of the group were ex-mental patients and a number of them 
committed suicide - Dekompositions was dedicated to them.

Graeme Revell by this time was married to Sinan and they made the industrial disco 
singles Machine Age Voodoo and Junk Funk.  I wasn't especially impressed by their 
latest albums (I do not remember their titles presently).  I did see them in concert in 
1988 in support of the last SPK album opening for Chris and Cosey.  And actually the 
concert was amazing and very LOUD. Though most of the material was from their last 
album the spirit of the music was more akin to the music on Auto-da-fe. Hayes and Sinan
were engaged in choreographed dancing and Revell was engaged in smashing grinders into 
steel drums causing sparks to fly everywhere - he also injured a member of the audience
while swinging a metal chain (approximately 4 m long) over his head. 

Of the recent solo projects by Graeme Revell probably the most interesting is the album
`Necropolis, Amphibians and Reptiles: the music of Adolf Wolffi' which is a 
collaberation with Nurse with Wound among others. Wollfi was a Swiss mental patient who
lived during the first half of this century and he produced a voluminous number of 
paintings that incorporated words and his own unique (and cryptic) musical notation. 
This album is a series of musical interpretations of the work of Wolffi. I like this 
album a lot but it is not industrial. Another solo work is `Insect Musicians' where he 
recording the sounds of various insects and used their sounds as one might use an 
instrument. 



-- 
__ _  _  __ _____ ___ __ _    >>>>--------------Marten Sahlen---------------<<<<
 _| |  |  _| _ _ |_ _| _| |   >>>---Ellemtel Telecommunication Systems Lab---<<<
 _| |  |  _| | | |  |  _| |   >>--------Email: etxsahm@eua.ericsson.se--------<<
__|__|__|__|_|_|_| _| __|__|  >-----Phone +46 8 7273849, Fax +46 8 6478276-----<


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!festival!dcs.ed.ac.uk!awrc Thu Mar 10 19:45:23 EST 1994
Article: 37199 of rec.music.industrial
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!festival!dcs.ed.ac.uk!awrc
From: awrc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Al Crawford)
Subject: Re: Review: Delerium - Spheres
Message-ID: 
Sender: cnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk (UseNet News Admin)
Organization: The University Of Edinburgh - Department Of Computer Science
References:   <2lj3us$hs5@Olympus.McRCIM.McGill.EDU>
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 11:06:19 GMT
Lines: 24
Status: O

And lo, thomas@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Thomas Jelonek) spake unto the masses saying:
>
>> +5 - Probably the all-time greatest album in the history of the universe.
>
> Have you ever rated anything a +5? 

Nope. The highest rating I've ever given a disc was +4 and in retrospect I
think I was over-generous and would downgrade it to a +3. Then again,
there's lots of +2 discs that over time I've come to rate as +3s. The
lowest rating I've ever given was, I think, -3.

All the reviews (well, *almost* all the reviews) I've ever posted can now
be found in my new all-singing, all-dancing WWW music
review archive. Browse for whole minutes at a time! Gasp at factually
inaccurate reviews! Go round in circles following the links between related
artists! Complain when a link leads to the wrong place! Minutes of fun to
be had...

-- 
			Al Crawford - awrc@dcs.ed.ac.uk
	  Department Of Computer Science, The University of Edinburgh
   Rm 1410, JCMB, Kings Buildings, Mayfield Rd, EDINBURGH, EH9 3JZ, Scotland
	     Tel: +44 (0) 31 650 5165  Fax: +44 (0) 31 667 7209


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!eff!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!mattxyz Sun Mar 13 22:10:52 EST 1994
Article: 37323 of rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!eff!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!mattxyz
From: mattxyz@leland.Stanford.EDU (Matthew Gerald Bartels)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: TAPE DELAY (was Re: H3O discos)
Date: 10 Mar 1994 16:05:13 GMT
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <2lngfp$bd3@nntp2.Stanford.EDU>
References:  <2ll9ut$l8e@news.u.washington.edu> <2lli12$ocp@news.cc.oberlin.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wisdom.stanford.edu
Status: O

In article <2lli12$ocp@news.cc.oberlin.edu>, wrote:
>>>>BOOKS / REFERENCES
>>>>==================
>>>>* "Tape Delay"
>>>>   1987, SAF Publishing ltd {ISBN 0-946719-02-0}
>>>>   This book contains an interview with Chris Watson and Andrew McKenzie.
>>>
>>>does anyone know of a mail-order source in the US that carries
>>>copies of this? i have never been able to find it.

Here's the info from the book:

Mail Order:
Wings Mail Order,Freepost,London, N7 8BR, UK
Tele: 071 704 7063 Fax: 071 607 6714
payment can be made by cheque or Access/Visa/Eurocard

The publisher info: SAF Publishing Ltd.,
12 Conway Gardens, Wembley, Middx.
HA9 8TR. England
Tel: 081- 904 6263

The titles they list as available:

Tape Delay - Charles Neal
ISBN 0 946719020
cost:UK 11.95

Cabaret Voltaire - The Art of the Sixth Sense
by Mick Fish & Dave Hallbery
ISBN 0946719 039
cost: UK 6.95

Wire...Everybody Loves a History
by Kevin Eden
ISBN: 0946719 071
cost: UK 9.95

The Can Book
by Pascal Bussy & Andy Hall
ISBN 0946719 055
cost: UK 8.95

Kraftwerk - the Kling Klang Sound
by Pascal Bussy & Mick Fish
ISBN 0946719 098
cost: UK 11.95


I don't know about the others, but Tape Delay is quite good.  It's got
interviews with and/or essays/montages by just
about all the people who pop up here regularly incl:
EN, PTV, C93, Coil, Clint Ruin, Boyd Rice, Test Dept, Diamonda Galas, Swans
Sonic Youth, Laibach, Nick Cave, Hafler Trio, Cab V, Lydia Lunch, Rollins,
Jon Savage, Biba Kopf, Stevo, Mark Almond/Dave Ball, Matt Johnson, 
Steve Stapelton, usw.

If your in the Detroit area, I got it at RedEye Books for around $20.00.

That's about all.

xyz
 


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!boe666 Sun Mar 27 22:55:58 EST 1994
Article: 38442 of rec.music.industrial
Xref: galois rec.music.industrial:38442 alt.magick:21643
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From: boe666@u.washington.edu (Beast of Eden)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial,alt.magick
Subject: Re: Thelemic industrial bands?
Date: 26 Mar 1994 10:18:57 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
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shawnb@ecst.csuchico.edu (S.E.P. Brown) writes:

> 93,
>
> I'm interested in expanding my library of Thelemic industrial cds.
> I really like Coil and Current 93, but if anyone could recommend
> any stuff influenced by Thelema, Crowley, or the works of Burroughs
> and Bryon Gysin, please let me know!

ubix@west.darkside.com (LHOOQtius ov Borg) writes:

>Well, that includes an incredible amount of work, but other groups
>that fit the bill I _think_ you mean are:
>
>Death In June
>Psychick TV (to some extent)
>Legendary Pink Dots
>Sixth Com
>Sleep Chamber
>
>and there are others.... even ministry had Golden Dawn...

I might point out here that while all of these groups have a magickal or 
neo-pagan orientation and some may explicitly mention Crowley or Crowlean 
themes, calling them Thelemic is problematic.  The Temple ov Psychic 
Youth oriented bands (Psychick TV (formerly), Psychic Warriors ov Gaia, 
and Sleep Chamber) and, even more so, Coil are oriented toward Chaos 
Magick rather than the Thelemic system.  (John Zewiz (Sleep Chamber) 
combines TOPY ideas with Satanism.) 

Chaos Magick seems to be a defining element of a large section of the 
Post-Industrial milieu going back to the beginnings of PTV/TOPY (even back 
into Throbbing Gristle).  Even Laibach came out with a "Hymn to the Black 
Sun" on their last album.  Another Chaos Magick oriented band that I can 
think of offhand is Zero Kama (who even titled one piece "Death Posture").  
Zero Kama did dark acoustic ambient music on instruments made entirely 
from human bones.

Chaos Magick grew out of the magical system of Austin Osman Spare, who 
was considered heretical even by Crowley.  I'm sure there are a lot of 
people who can sum up the differences between Chaos Magick and Thelemic 
Magick much better than I can and I leave them to it.

Current 93 started out as Thelemic (hence the name).  David Tibet has 
long since renounced magick in favor of Tibetan Buddhism, which he 
combines with elements of Christian mysticism and European paganism.  
Tibet has put down magickal practitioners in no uncertain terms as weak 
people looking for power (and he includes himself when he was practicing 
magick).  On the other hand, he still closely associates himself with 
people like John Balance, who are very much magickal practitioners.

Douglas Pearce (Death In June) and Tony Wakeford (Sol Invictus) are into 
a sort of pan-European paganism associated with European New Right 
politics.  I'm not as clear about Patrick O'Kill (Sixth Com).  I think 
he's pagan, but doesn't have the ENR associations of Pearce and Wakeford; 
in fact, I've heard the reason why O'Kill left DIJ was over political 
differences with Douglas Pearce.  Another musician associated with the 
C93/DIJ/SI axis is Boyd Rice (NON).  Boyd Rice, in his more recent work, 
shows a definite Satanist and Nordicist orientation, combined with a
(un)healthy dose of fascism.

I don't know enough about Edward Ka-spell's (Legendary Pink Dots) spiritual 
ideas to say whether he could be called "Thelemic" or not (its probably 
just one element among many).  Some other bands that I think have a magickal 
or pagan association are Ordo Equitum Solis (I don't know enough about 
them to say what the exact nature of their beliefs are) and In Slaughter 
Natives (who did a song called "To Mega Therion", but I don't know much 
about them either).

Beast of Eden
"Do what keepeth thou from wilting shall be the loophole in The Law."
-- Book of the Outlaw


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!boe666 Thu Mar 31 22:47:46 EST 1994
Article: 38709 of rec.music.industrial
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From: boe666@u.washington.edu (Beast of Eden)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Boyd Rice's Address
Date: 30 Mar 1994 06:31:00 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
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ubix@west.darkside.com (LHOOQtius ov Borg) writes:

>> (Also, I thought only skinheads could be American Front members.  BR  
>> may sympathize with skinheads, but he's not a skinhead himself.)
>
>Wrong.  Like most of their 'brother' organizations such as W.A.R. and
>American Nazi Party, skinheads are their shocktroops and the upper
>eschalon all look like David Duke.  The internal politics of the racist
>movement is complex (I have read about it extensively as the natural
>offshoot of my interest in World War II), but even groups like the Klan
>which tries to distance itself from skinheads and it's own violent past
>keep ties with skinhead groups in hopes of manipulating them as their
>equivalent of the SA or SS.

Sorry, but I'm afraid you're in error here.  I've also done some pretty 
extensive research on neo-Nazi groups, including writing to a large 
number of them and getting quite a bit of their literature, newsletters, 
etc.  A friend of mine is an ex-WAR Skin, so I have some first hand 
information there too.

First, references to "the Klan" and the "American Nazi Party" tend to set 
off my bullshit detector because there is, in fact, many different and 
factionated Klans and Nazi Parties in the US.  A monolithic "Klan" or 
"American Nazi Party" simply doesn't exist.

To say that all neo-Nazi leaders look like David Duke is simply 
inaccurate.  David Duke is one of the few charismatic leaders that have 
been able to come out of the white supremacist movement and gain a mass 
following.  Most leaders of these groups aren't nearly so smooth.  Nor do 
I see Klan groups trying to distance themselves from skinheads or their 
past.  David Duke has tried to distance himself from his own violent 
past, but that has more to do with his particular political ambitions.  
Many KKK groups make no secret of the fact that they recruit skinheads 
and Klan marches quite often include skinheads.  As some skinheads grow 
older, it wouldn't be at all surprising if some achieve positions of 
leadership within the white supremacist movement.

>From what I know about WAR, however, they did maintain something of a 
dual structure.  (I refer to them in the past tense because they've been 
sued out of existence.)  WAR was the dominant organization and American 
Front was a skinhead group with very close ties to WAR; in fact AF was 
also known as "WAR Skins" (and in San Francisco, was synonymous with SF 
Skins).  I doubt that Boyd Rice was an American Front member for that 
reason.  (The SF Skins are still around, though I'm not sure if they're 
still the "American Front".  I'm also not sure if "Nazi Bob" Heick is 
still in San Francisco stirring up shit.)

I should also point out (before somebody does it for me :) that not all 
skins are nazi's, there are also anti-racist SHARP Skins, etc.

>page 168 of "Blood In The Face" by J. Ridgeway (Thunders Mouth Press)
>has a photo of Herr Rice with Bob Heick of the San Francisco American
>Front.

That sounds a bit more incriminating.  Boyd Rice may very well have been 
a WAR member and at the very least was a fellow traveler.  He has 
appeared on the WAR cable show "Race and Reason" talking about 
"racialist" music (he specifically named Current 93 and Death In June).  
He also included a sample from WAR's "White Power Hotline" on "In The 
Shadow of the Sword" (though that, in itself, doesn't mean advocacy, but 
it is part of a larger pattern).

aj153@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (David Watson) writes:

>I saw a photo of him in the MaximumRocknRoll Hate issue wearing a (if
>memory serves) White Aryan Resistance shirt.

That also sounds like a pretty incriminating photo.  I'd take any 
political piece I read in MaximumRocknRoll with a grain of salt.  Tim 
Yohannen isn't above throwing around the label "Nazi" pretty loosely.

Beast of Eden



From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!think.com!hsdndev!unix.sri.com!headwall.Stanford.EDU!mattxyz Thu Apr  7 19:19:16 EDT 1994
Article: 39341 of rec.music.industrial
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From: mattxyz@leland.Stanford.EDU (Matthew Gerald Bartels)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial,alt.gothic
Subject: Re: Tibet's religious ideas (was: Current 93's new album)
Date: 7 Apr 1994 18:05:25 GMT
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
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I've got a copy of the Tibet interview in <> here, so I'll
type in the relevant excerpts. Oh, tho' no exact date is given, David only
refers to Lashtal and Nature Unveiled - seems safe to say he lost interest in 
Crowley quite early in the C93 era:

Q: What made you lose interest in Crowley?
Tibet: I think its just the passage of time really. I got my first Crowley
book when I was twelve. From then on I started collecting Crowley and after
a while I assimilated it all. I used to be interested in ceremonial magic 
but eventually I realized it's just a rehearsal of reality and there's some-
thing ludicrous if you think about it objectively: a lot of people dressing 
up in robes, waving swords and wands.
     You just lose interest because they get so involved in complexity
for the sake of it, and after all the years of studying it and reading it
and perhaps trying to put it into practice, you realise that you're not 
left with very much - apart from what turns out to be ego. Crowley 
obviously had a lot of valid things to say and was an interesting man. His 
dictum, "Do what thou will..." I still agree with because it's a mystical,
anarchistic doctrine. But you find you're just running around in circles which
seems to be common with a lot of people that get into Crowley and are
interested in him for good reasons.
     There's also a danger that bands use people as images. You get the im-
pression that they're saying, "Well we don't have any ideas, but we're 
interested in Manson, Crowley, Jim Jones, Hitler, whoever it is, so even though
 we're not very good, because we're interested in this, we must be fucking
weird".  But it's escaping the fact that there's no content there and it's 
just gratuitous image posturing. Which is why 'Lashtal' was Crowlean, it 
admitted it on the sleeve notes - and it has a specific aim. But 'Nature
Unveiled' has very little to do with Crowley on it.
(a while later..)
Q: What about people that go to the other extreme, for instance Satanists?
Tibet: Well, Satan is the opposite of God. You can't worship Satan unless 
you're a Christian because unless you're a Christian, you don't believe in
Satan anyway. So Satanists are just childish people.
Q: Do you believe that Satan is a force?
Tibet: There's cetainly a force that people define as Satan or Uriman, or
whatever name they've got for it. I've just never been keen on this 
dualistic thinking....(dualism bit skipped)... There's a force obviously
and its a force to be respectful towards. You never know. But Satanism
is such tedious garbage. If you look at people who are Satanists, the 
leaders like Anton Lavey, for example, who wear plastic horns on their
heads (pause); he's quite a witty writer and I'm quite aware that he's a 
con-artist, and he knows it, and is just ripping off arseholes. But 
Satanism, goats... like really scary...fucking terrified. (laughs)

End long quote.
from <>, Charles Neal , SAF Publishing, 1987 (reprinted 1992)
pp. 207, 210.


From galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!boe666 Thu Jun  9 22:54:53 EDT 1994
Article: 43594 of rec.music.industrial
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From: boe666@u.washington.edu (Beast of Eden)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Ambient Industrial? (was: Voice of Eye's Vespers)
Date: 8 Jun 1994 18:37:16 GMT
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foVea (alt@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu) writes:

>I'd have to say that VoE and others like them (Illusion of safety, John 
>Duncan etc.) were the reason that this group was formed!

A bit of hyperbole there.  This group was formed for discussion of all 
industrial and related music.  This certainly includes ambient industrial 
and, by extension, similar forms of ambient.

>What ppl are calling "Industrial" today without a doubt came out of the 
>TG "Industrial" movement,

True, though often the basis is pretty loose.
 
>and thats where the roots of this type of ambient music are as well (maybe
>TG is a bad examplel.... E. Varrese might be more appropriate)

If by "this type of ambient music" you mean ambient industrial, then I 
would agree that it has its roots in TG pieces like the "In the Shadow of 
the Sun" score or "AB/7A".  These clearly formed the basis for what Coil, 
PTV and CTI went on to do.  But I don't see bands like Voice of Eye as 
having clear roots here; ambient industrial is probably one among several 
of their influences.  On the whole, ambient has its roots in the music of 
Brian Eno, who coined the term, as well as his predecessors and 
collaborators.

>in any case, I can't think of a better place to discuss VoE,Arcane 
>Device,NWW etc...

No argument there, especially lacking a specifically ambient newsgroup.

>the term "Industrial" is virtually meaningless anymore, becase it is 
>used by very different circles to mean very different things.

Of course; if you've read my posts for any length of time, you'll note 
that I continually stress the fact that the Industrial-era proper ended 
in 1982, with the folding of Industrial Records.  What's come since then 
is post-Industrial, which doesn't mean a specific form of music, but 
rather a meta-label for any form of music with a basis in Industrial - 
anything from ambient industrial to EBM.

Also, Kevin Busby (kevinb@central.susx.ac.uk) points out that the term 
"Ambient" has come to mean many different things and thus become 
increasingly meaningless.  He writes:

>D.A.C. Crowell (dacc@yiffy.tigerden.com) wrote:
>
>> 	It's also bugged the crap out of me that there's no clear-cut
>> ambient newsgroup. It's easy to determine what _constitutes_ ambient 
>> music in general, but getting the subcategorizing down sometimes gets
>> into the realm of diminishing results.
>
>Doubt 1: Is (post-Eno) "ambient" a recognizable genre?
>
>As an example, the current issue of 'Record Collector' - a consistently
>level-headed and informed magazine - has a feature on "Ambient Music".
>Its recommended recordings include works by Satie, Cage, Stockhausen,
>La Monte Young, Ravi Shankar, Paul Horn, Terry Riley, Pink Floyd, Mike
>Oldfield, Robert Fripp, Can, Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, Brian Eno
>(surprise), Keith Jarrett, David Bowie, Klaus Schulze, Harold Budd,
>Popol Vuh, Steve Reich, Peter Baumann, Durutti Columnn, Philip Glass,
>Clannad (yes, Clannad), Pat Metheny, Manuel Gottsching, This Mortal
>Coil, Peter Gabriel...
>
>The list goes on. How many times did you raise an eyebrow reading that
>selection? ;-) Does all the above constitute a genre? Or a currently
>profitable marketing ploy? 

The above seems to be a list of commercially successful bands that are 
electronic and/or atmospheric to varying degrees, along with some of the 
actual founders of ambient.  Ambient Industrial musicians stand out by 
their absence.  Of course, the lack of major label promotion consigns 
them to the proverbial memory hole.

And then there's this godawful new marketing ploy that's essentially 
saying ambient = ambient techno.  Look at most articles in major music 
magazines about "ambient" and they'll mention Eno and then talk about his 
"successors", The Orb, KLF, Moby, Aphex Twin and the like.  Notably 
missing is any mention of any non-techno ambient, other than Eno, of 
course.  This is essentially the same thing the music industry did with 
the term "Industrial" in the mid-'80s.

>Does it matter? Which leads me to...
>
>Doubt 2: How long will "Ambient" last as a useful label? If "ambient"
>has stabilised into a category/genre, then there's no problem. But if,
>it's more properly seen as loosely connected parts of the continuing
>evolution (or at least, change!) of electronic/ atmospheric music, 

Well, I use the term ambient fairly loosely as well, for music that's 
highly atmospheric (and I mean highly, where this is a predominant 
feature of the music) and with a tendency towards long tones rather than 
traditional classical and pop structures.  For the most part, I see 
ambient as an electronic music, but there are groups like Zero Kama that 
could be considered ambient and acoustic.  Its difficult to come up with 
a hard definition of ambient, but I know it when I hear it (kind of like 
pornography :).

Eno, of course, had a narrower definition of ambient - he said it was 
like musical wallpaper, fitting into the background and not really for 
active listening (stuff like "Discrete Music").  But the term "ambient" 
pretty quickly grew beyond this definition and my measure of good ambient
is music that not only works as background music, but that's interesting 
to listen to actively as well.  (In fact, Eno himself did a lot of stuff 
that's good for active listening, such as "Music for Films".)

So, if ambient can be defined as atmospheric, long-toned, and predominantly
electronic music, then ambient industrial can be defined as Industrial or 
post-Industrial music with these characteristics (so now we're working with
two vague concepts at once :), for example, the use of industrial noises 
and anti-music in an atmospheric context.  Here's a list of some strong 
examples of ambient industrial pieces or albums/CDs:

Coil: "Aqua Regis", "The Sewage Worker's Birthday Party"
Nightmare Culture (Coil/Boyd Rice): The Sickness of Snakes, "His Body Was 
				    a Playground for the Nazi Elite".
CTI/Boyd Rice (from CORE): "Guest + Host = Ghost"
Hafler Trio: HT Play The Hafler Trio, Kill the King, Mastery of Money
NON: much of Blood and Flame, notably "Cruenta Voluptas" and "Sunset"
PGR: The Chemical Bride
Daniel Menche: much of Incineration

(The last three could also be called "ambient noise")

This list is hardly definitive (though it does include some of the 
definitive works of ambient industrial), but are examples of works where 
both the ambient and industrial elements are strong.

>then how long before the term "ambient" becomes redundant?

When it gets applied to any and all work that's even a little bit 
atmospheric, such as the way it was used in the Record Collecter 
article that you were referring to.

>OK, we have enough problems defining "industrial", but certain
>key approaches or attitudes keep surfacing; can the same be said of
>"ambient"?

Themes of inner space and even spirituality seem to come up a lot with 
ambient music.  (The superficiality of New Age music could be related to 
the superficiality of New Age spirituality.)  If you combine this theme 
of ambient with the recurring themes of industrial, its no wonder that 
ambient industrial is often oriented to the occult, particularly Chaos 
Magic.

However, Eno himself would probably deny that his music is especially 
"spiritual".  Steve Stapleton also says this; he claims his music is 
"scientific".  Still, both might admit that their music has some sort of 
effect on consciousness, whether subtle or overt.

>I have to wonder if the interests of most of us in this newsgroup might
>be better served by the success of the lastest marketting term,
>"Isolationism". The next Virgin ambient sample will be devoted to
>"isolationist" music, and certain sections of the music press has
>started applying it to droning, dissonant guitar music, miserable,
>depressing synthesiser music  :-) and some of the more inventive
>techno. Now that, to me, sounds like a cause which may be worth
>pursuing. Should we hang on a while for "rec.music.isolationist"?!

To hell with that, I'm more than a little sick of the music industry and 
what passes for a musical press in America getting to define and redefine 
music.  (Not that the British music press is all that much better.)  Most 
of the major music magazines seem to be written by people who don't know 
shit about music, especially if it isn't mainstream, and pretty much just 
work from major label press releases.  Large magazines like Rolling Stone 
and Spin tend to give a lot of "complimentary copy", which means that if 
they want to keep the press releases, free review CDs and, especially, 
the advertising dollars coming, they had better prominently feature the 
labels' artists and releases and not write too badly about them.  (Of 
course, this problem goes well beyond music magazines.)  As a result, 
most of what passes for music criticism is really just industry PR.  
IMHO, the artists and listeners should define music, not ad-men.


D.A.C. Crowell (dacc@yiffy.tigerden.com) writes:

>What's "industrial" to some might be "newage" to others...or still,
>might be "techno", or could just be plain ol' "ambient". Case in point:
>NWW's "Soliloquy for Lilith". Well? What would _you_ call it? 

Plain ol' ambient?  No, actually not plain; its an exceptional work.

>Here's a group/person/whatever clearly tied-in with industrial music 
>doing something which for all intents and purposes would be quite at 
>home under New Age, for the most part.

I don't know if I'd consider it newagey, but I see your point.  I've 
always thought of New Age as a highly bastardized form of ambient music 
(ambient for Care Bears :).  I see Nocturnal Emissions as a band/musician 
that tries to do many of the same things with music that New Age attempts 
to, but NE succeeds where New Age has failed.  I can certainly see "The 
World Is My Womb" (particularly "Shankini Nadi") being a big hit down on 
the ashram. 

Beast of Eden


From mikehell@netcom.com Fri Jul  8 01:39:43 EDT 1994
Article: 45030 of rec.music.industrial
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Path: galois!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!noc.near.net!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!mikehell
From: mikehell@netcom.com (Kontrol Faktory)
Subject: Re: PTV Fate?
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <1994Jul3.215302.17470@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 08:57:08 GMT
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Michael A. DuVernois (duve@ellis.uchicago.edu) wrote:
: I haven't been following the music news closely enough evidently.  Is it
: true that sometime after this spring's Chicago show that Genesis and Paula
: split?  I understand that PTV hasn't played since then, this true?  Oh
: the humanity.

CONTRIBUTE TO THEE PROCESS
AS IT IS..
SO,
As yu so, Sew Reap. Doyu understand? Knot yet. But You WILL. thee Process 
hs been waiting, waiting on You.Do you understand, which ov thee GODS you 
are aligned tOO? KNOW, ov course you do NOT, you KNOT. You live, you 
breathe, you want to BE, butter these GODS, are BRAINS, they do KNOT 
tolerate THEE you. THEY speak, AS IT IS, so be IT , which is OV corsets, 
Imaginary TIME. This MEANS, LOOK, LOOOK., LOOOOOOOOK YES you FUCKIN 
harmless, Non aligned, personal, piece ov L-iF-E. THINK Thee Thinking IS 
thee PROCESS. This is HERE, HEAR?
MOMMY! KNOW this Is IT Imaginary, TIME...
SO BE IT...
Father Malachi, Him Say, Old Proverb...
WE EXIST, THEE GODS AND THEIR PEOPLE,
AS IT IS,
EXIT,
DO YOU UNNERSTAN?
KNOW
KILL,
LOVE,
BEEE,
ANY WEIGH
KNOW,
NO.
Hear we ARE ,
Ahhhhh
.
SO,
BE IT.
Imaginary,
COUM In Thee Process Is thee Product,
FUCK
U
Fucj
CHRIST
Jehovah
SATAN
LUCEFIR
That IS 
ME,You. IT 
Imaginary TIME
Thee NEXT boook is So LONG
GIVE ME,
I.T.
OK you think this Brother IS being CRYPTIC!
KNOW
This,
WE ARE COUMING AT YOU
WE ARE THEE CHILDREN
tRIBE
OV thee LOST
GIVE me
BLOOD
SO BE IT
.
.
SIGNED
Brother Genesis
.



From locklin@phyast.pitt.edu Thu Oct 13 19:15:09 EDT 1994
Article: 51641 of rec.music.industrial
Xref: galois alt.satanism:9456 rec.music.industrial:51641
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From: locklin@phyast.pitt.edu (Lupo LeBoucher)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Death In June/C93/Sol + nazism
Date: 7 Oct 1994 19:01:05 -0500
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In article <372u7o$l3j@muss.cis.McMaster.CA> you write:
>I'm hearing a lot of talk about Boyd that suggests he's some kind of 
>trickster or playful child.  Let's remember a couple of things here.  
>Most of the people connected to C93/NWW/DIJ either never were or have 
>renounced any fascist connections.  

Assuming that this is a serious conversation, let's start on this with some 
definitions. First of all, the words "fascism," "nazi," "racialism,"
and "racism" are _not_ synonymous. Most people use them as synonyms, broadly
defined as "bad stuff" -this is unacceptable in enlightened company. If you 
are going to apply a term to something, please use the term precisely.

>Boyd never has and is outspoken about it even today.  

In what way is he outspoken, and about what, specifically? I'm not nitpicking
here; I want to know exactly what you are accusing Mr Rice of, if indeed you
are accusing him of anything exact. Innuendo is a different story alltogether,
though independantly interesting.

>Boyd has gone on record as saying that C93 and DIJ are "racialists" (and 
>we all know what _that_ means).  

No, actually, I don't think we do. "Racialism" as I understand it, is a
strong identification with ones ancestors. This identification may be militant,
as with the Black Muslims, or various "Aryanists" -or it may be non-militant,
as with various Scottish marching/Piping groups.
"Racism" generally defined as judging people on the basis of race (racial
prejudice), or, in the modern parlance some "system of oppression" which
has racial prejudices built into it. 

>True, he likes to 
>provoke people, and there was a time in his life (eg. NON) where I would 
>have found it relevant, but hate is a different mind-set from "playful 
>eccentric" and Boyd is unashamed about it.  

I think you are missing out on a good deal of what is going on with BR's
"shock tactics" -I don't think the descriptor "playful eccentric" ever
applied.

>A few years ago I was talking to Andrea Juno (REsearch) and she told me 
>that they won't have anything to do with Boyd now because he walked 
>into the REsearch offices and told her that black people supposedly 
>have 15% (excuse me if I can't remember 
>the exact percentage, like it's important or something) less brain matter 
>in their skulls than white people.  

As I heard it, Re/Search owes Boyd a good deal of money for some work he did
for them on "Incredibly Strange Films." Seems to me that this apocryphal story
may have been taken out of context; though, if it were, it would somewhat
negate what I will say next.

>How many lines do you have to read between to ignore that kind of behaviour.  

 Ignoring it isn't the point, as I see it. Whether or not BR (or whatever other
artist) subscribes to virulently racist views like "black people have 15% less
brains in their skulls than white people"*** is irrelevant. How people react to
such heretical views is the truely interesting thing here.

 You will find that most Satanists will, at one time or another, use the 
trick of espousing a heretical view to accomplish something, or simply 
test the mettle of those around them. Often, the Satanist will actually
believe the heretical view, while silmutaneously holding an antithetical
view. Not such a difficult thing to accomplish unconsciously; note the
contradictions inherent in modern culture; to accomplish this consciously
& fully is an art to be mastered. This is the same tradition/skill as that 
of the riddle of old, or of the Zen koan.

 What makes the Satanic belief in contradictory ideas different is the
use of ideas that are socially unacceptable. In this way he accomplishes
the alchemal transformation within, coupled with power gain in the external
world. Tyagi Nagashiva (tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com) has written many essays 
on this form of social Shamanism under the collective title "The Great 
Martyrdom Cult" which may help clarify the last few sentances.

Note that I am not excusing, or justifying any alleged "Racist" views or
actions on BR's part -I am merely pointing out an interesting occult 
possibility. I personally would not pass moral judgement on anyone, though
I do follow my own set of ethical rules (note that I have deliberately used
the words moral and ethical to mean different things).

>I just can't stand the vicious 
>little bastard and I'm sorry if this seems like too harsh a rant.

That's OK. I hope you don't mind my acting the devil's advocate for "the
vicious little bastard"

-Lupo the Butcher

***
(Actually, the figure may or may not be true; many "scientists" studied such
things in the 1800s -most notably Paul Broca. It was later found that, not
only was some of their data fake, but their premise was wrong; brain mass
and intelligence in humans is actually unrelated as near as we can tell. The
surface area of the cortex [number of wrinkles], on the other hand, does 
seem to be related to intelligence. All this makes me wonder if what exactly
was meant by the comment, if indeed it was said)


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From: Beast of Eden 
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Newsgroups: alt.gothic,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Death In June/Boyd Rice + nazi imagery
Organization: University of Washington
References: <36n9mo$beb@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <36uqon$ev3@newsbf01.news.aol.com>
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xdadax@aol.com (XdadaX) writes:

>In article <36n9mo$beb@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, boe666@u.washington.edu
>(Beast of Eden) writes:

>>As to the comment that "DIJ, C93, Boyd Rice, Sol Invictus etc..are 
>>extremely intelligent people with a profound spiritual awareness", well 
>>there are of people who are intelligent and aware and who's politics are 
>>right wing.

>Let's be careful about keeping C93/David Tibet out of this conversation.

And let's be careful as to attributions here; that statement was by David
McCloskey (gothic@cyber1.servtech.com), whom I was quoting.  I wouldn't 
have chosen to bring C93 into this context either.

>C93 have no connection to right wing politics.

Yes and no.  Certainly no direct connection.  But C93 is very close to 
DIJ and Sol Invictus, who I'm convinced are into the European New Right, 
so there's an indirect connection there.  I don't consider it a big deal, 
since I'm not a huge believer in guilt by mere association.  Steve 
Ignorant of Crass has been part of the Current as well, so its impossible
to pigeonhole C93 as being part of one political movement or another.  I'm 
sure David Tibet is well versed in both far left and far right ideas; 
he's stated that he's an avid reader of extreme political and religious 
works of all kinds.

>I also strongly feel that Tony Wakeford is no longer relevant with 
>regard to nazi/fascist politics.  He was invloved with a national 
>front organization years ago but has moved past this and now disavows 
>this activity. 

He's not part of any overt NF groups, but he is part of the Iona Group, 
a more intellectual outgrowth of the NF, with an ENR orientation.

>Douglas P. has always been mysterious and enigmatic about the matter. As
>far as I know he has never made and comments that would indicate he
>subscribes to Nazi ideology. In fact he told me in a letter that he felt
>Hitler was a TRAITOR to the German people. Interest in a particular time
>period of history is not an indicator of politics. 

That would be totally consistent with a Strasserite/ENR outlook.

>There are many other nuances involved here besides this certain kind of 
>political ideology.

No doubt.

>Boyd Rice is another matter. He is into creating as much controversy as he
>possibly can. This has been his history. He just happens to have found a
>new avenue. There is no way anyone can clearly say he (or Michael
>Moynihan) are neo-fascists. Boyd is into The Satanic Church as well. (More
>controversy) These interests have given him the opportunity to appear on
>several TV talk shows, radio shows, be mentioned in books on Satanism and
>have articles written about him.

Are you saying there's never any overlap between Satanists and 
neo-Nazis?  They're not all Identity Christians, you know.

>Michael Moynihan has always been interested in the darker side of 
>humanity. All of his interests lie here, whether it's fascism or 
>whatever. I think people are quick to jump to conclusions about all 
>these people....one should consider all the dynamics involved before 
>making any statements about any of these people.

I'm jumping to conclusions about Michael Moynihan?  I'm sorry, but 
I've read his Storm Productions literature and you'd have to blind to 
miss his Third Positionist/National Socialist ideology.  When, among 
other statements, he publishes an anthology of articles that neo-Nazi 
James Mason wrote for the NSLF journal "Siege!" and gives it his highest 
recommendations, I don't think its a very long jump at all to conclude 
that this is what he believes in.  One of Moynihan's artworks is part of 
the Universal Order room that's in the Seattle COCA show.  This display 
was put together by the Universal Order themselves, so the affinity goes 
both ways.

Beast of Eden

From boe666@u.washington.edu Sat Oct 15 06:01:31 EDT 1994
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From: boe666@u.washington.edu (Beast of Eden)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Politics of DIJ, Sol Invictus, etc. (Repost 1/2)
Date: 9 Oct 1994 07:57:26 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
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The following reposts are from a particularly informative thread that we
had on the subject of the politics and ideas of Tony Wakeford, Douglas
Pearce and David Tibet.  I will note that only one of these posts was
actually written by me, so be careful with your attributions, flames, etc.
And, of course, don't include all 500 lines to respond to one point. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Nazi Tendencies

From: f05o@zfn.uni-bremen.de (Karl Hribernik)
Organization: Zentrum fuer Netze, Universitaet Bremen
Date: 1 Dec 1993 09:18:17 GMT


I would really like to respond to this by emailing -s but I don't know
if it's possible to respond directly via an anonymous email service....
Anyone know if it is?
 
                On Death In June and Nazi Allegations

About DIJ etc. being Nazis or Fascists... especially here in Germany
they have had severe problems, especially with their symbolics.
Just in case some of you dont know what I'm talking about, DIJ use
a skull & crossbones motif on most of their record covers. This
motif is exactly the same one used by the SS "Totenkopf" brigades
(the concentration camp division, if I remember my history lessons
properly) on their uniforms etc. It is a Nazi symbol of the worst
kind.

Douglas P. say to their defence that he likes skulls and that the
SS symbol was a fitting representation of his devotion to the DIJ
project, DIJ is his life and would be so until his death. In June
I presume. =)

In a round about sort of way, Douglas Pearce denies being a fascist.
Quite correctly, he points out that the 3rd Reich misused and abused
a lot of norse symbolics, and he sees no reason not to use them.

Furthermore, I severely doubt that Douglas P., Patrick O'Kill or
any of the founding members of Death In June are fascists, even though
they use motifs which the 3rd Reich misused. The Guilty Have No
Pride cover certainly gives the impression of being Nazi, but given
the fact that the members of DIJ were all actively involved in left-
wing politics at the time, the impression must be false.

As to the lyrics of Death In June, and in particular Boyd Rice,
they often do seem to be full of Nazi ideology (and sampling).
On "Brown Book" there is a rendition of the "Horst Wessels Lied"
which was a Nazi march song in the 3rd Reich.  On the whole I 
think the lyrics are to be interpreted in a different way, a more 
philosophic and maybe occult manner. A great deal of their songs 
have lyrics which heavily lean on Thelemic matters, to the extent 
of quoting Crowley ("..the heart of the master..." is the most 
obvious)1  Looked at under the light of this quite a deal of the 
"naziesque" lyrics turn out to be not what they seem.

After a year or two of wondering if DIJ are nazis or not I came to
the conclusion that, in my opinion, they are not. It is quite probable
that the use of nazi symbolism is an attempt at raising the myth of DIJ 
and giving themselves a mystical and threatening cult image plus a lot
of controversy (and everyone knows that shock tactics sell records...) 
Although Douglas P. would deny this. =)

On the whole I think everyone should take what they find in DIJ and
enjoy it if they can. I think its sad that a band of such quality
as DIJ think it necessary to use such motifs on their albums, but
thats their problem, not mine. Hardly anyone who listens to these
bands is a nazi.

Sorry about going on about the subject like this but I have often
been called a nazi for listening to DIJ and I think the people who
enjoy DIJ should be cleared of such suspicion, if not the band.


                         Thank you for your patience

                                                Maldoror (Rising)

 1)I do not want to incite a discussion on Crowley!!!! =)
   Whether you think he's crap or godly, thats up to you,
   and really not worth the bandwidth.


From: hthornbu@osiris.hmc.edu (Harvey Thornburg)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA USA
Date: 2 Dec 1993 06:22:27 GMT

In article <2dhngp$q7p@ina.zfn.uni-bremen.de> you write:

>I would really like to respond to this by emailing -s but I don't know
>if it's possible to respond directly via an anonymous email service....
>Anyone know if it is?
> 
>                On Death In June and Nazi Allegations
>
 [deleted...]

I really liked this article, it sums up a lot of what I believe, too.
I decided to repost it to rec.music.industrial, where the same 
discussion has been raging for a couple days.  A couple additional 
points..

>After a year or two of wondering if DIJ are nazis or not I came to
>the conclusion that, in my opinion, they are not. It is quite probable
>that the use of nazi symbolism is an attempt at raising the myth of DIJ 
>and giving themselves a mystical and threatening cult image plus a lot 
>of controversy (and everyone knows that shock tactics sell records...)
>Although Douglas P. would deny this. =)
>
>On the whole I think everyone should take what they find in DIJ and
>enjoy it if they can. I think its sad that a band of such quality
>as DIJ think it necessary to use such motifs on their albums, but
>thats their problem, not mine. Hardly anyone who listens to these
>bands is a nazi.


About the symbolism ... I really think Douglas is making a point about 
how ancient symbols can be co-opted for evil/hateful means, and indeed 
a deeper point about how ancient ideologies can be similarly used. (Just 
look at the "development" of Christianity).  So maybe there are motives 
other than just "selling records." After all, "what ends when the 
symbols shatter..."

Personally, I think their use of such symbolism is off-putting to the 
uninitiated and probably has injured severely their "commercial" 
potential.  In the wake of the early '80's goth movements, they could 
have wrung some potential "pop" value out of stuff like "Heaven Street", 
"All Alone in Her Nirvana", "She Said Destroy", etc.  So I don't think 
this cynicism is justified in this case.  

>Sorry about going on about the subject like this but I have often
>been called a nazi for listening to DIJ and I think the people who
>enjoy DIJ should be cleared of such suspicion, if not the band.

Well put. Nazism is based on ignorance, not knowledge/discovery/cultural
introspection.

>                         Thank you for your patience
>
>                                                Maldoror (Rising)
>

--  
 :"categories strain, crack, and      : Harvey D. Thornburg  	    \|/  :
 : sometimes break...step out of the  :                              |   :
 : space provided" -S. Stapleton      : hthornbu@osiris.ac.hmc.edu   |   :


From: boe666@carson.u.washington.edu (Beast of Eden)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: 3 Dec 1993 01:39:44 GMT

I've been busy with finals, so I haven't had time to attend to this 
thread as much as I'd like to.

Anyway, If I'm not mistaken, I read that Douglas Pearce and/or Patrick 
O'Kill were fascists, at least to a degree.  Specifically, I heard that 
they were admirers not of Hitler but of Otto Strasser.

Otto Strasser was the leader of the Nazi Party's left wing and a strong 
rival of Hitler's just a few years before the Nazis took power.  A brief 
summation of their differences:  

Hitler's constituency was mainly middle class, Strasser was more 
influential in working class circles.

National Socialism was a combination of German nationalism and socialism. 
Hitler emphasized the nationalist aspect, Strasser emphasized the socialist
aspect.

Hitler was for an alliance with the western powers (especially England; 
fellow Aryans) against the Soviet Union, Strasser was for an alliance 
with the Soviet Union against the capitalist West.

Strasser was genuinely for the expulsion of Jews, I believe to Poland, 
Hitler wanted them killed (though he avoided stating this directly in 
public).

Otto Strasser broke with Hitler when Hitler started to make deals with 
the major German capitalists, such as the Krupps and IG Farban.  His 
brother Gregor stayed on in the Nazi party as nominal leader of the 
party's left wing and Strasserism was influential within the party up 
until the Roehm purge.  Strasser and his followers played in importent 
part in winning a large portion of the working class over to nazism from 
socialism and communism.

Today there's kind of a Strasserite revival among various Neo-nazis, 
especially the more intellectually oriented ones and in Europe.  I 
think part of it is that it carries less baggage than saying you're a 
supporter of Hitler (kind of like Trotskists on the left can say that 
they're not Stalinists, even though they may in fact differ very 
little).  Call it Nazism lite .  Nonetheless, Strasserism is still 
Fascism; Strasser still wanted a totalitarian State, even if it took on 
a somewhat different form than what Hitler had in mind.  To the degree 
that any member of the Current 93/Death In June/Sol Invictus Axis  
say they're for Strasser's ideas, then I would call that person Fascist.

Karl Hribernik (f05o@zfn.uni-bremen.de) writes:

>The Guilty Have No Pride cover certainly gives the impression of being 
>Nazi, but given the fact that the members of DIJ were all actively 
>involved in left-wing politics at the time, the impression must be >false.

Not necessarily.  There is a "Third Force" movement in Europe which 
combines totalitarian right with totalitarian left ideas.  There was 
even one demonstration (I forget in what country) where skinheads were 
chanting, "Hitler and Mao!  United in struggle!"  (Talk about the worst 
of both worlds:)  Again, the "Third Force" is one of the main movements 
that Strasserism has influenced.

Anyway, so if anybody knows how influenced C93/DIJ/SI are by Strasserist 
and Third Force ideas, please tell me.

Beast of Eden

(PS:  I cross-posted this to both rec.music.industrial and alt.gothic.  
I don't see any reason why this shouldn't be discussed together by both 
groups.)


From: deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (David Matthew Deane)
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 22:14:03 GMT

In article <2dm83h$ffl@news.acns.nwu.edu>, 
rcarrier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Ronald Carrier) writes:

>Peter Werner  wrote:
>
>	[deletia]
>
>>Karl Hribernik (f05o@zfn.uni-bremen.de) writes:
>>
>>>The Guilty Have No Pride cover certainly gives the impression of 
>>>being Nazi, but given the fact that the members of DIJ were all 
>>>actively involved in left-wing politics at the time, the impression 
>>>must be false.
>>
>>Not necessarily.  There is a "Third Force" movement in Europe which 
>>combines totalitarian right with totalitarian left ideas.  There was 
>>even one demonstration (I forget in what country) where skinheads were 
>>chanting, "Hitler and Mao!  United in struggle!"  (Talk about the 
>>worst of both worlds :)  Again, the "Third Force" is one of the main 
>>movements that Strasserism has influenced.

The only time I've heard this slogan (Hitler and Mao) was in a rather 
slipshod article in _Mother Jones_. I do not know enough about the 
subject to tell how common the above thinking was or in what groups it 
occured, and the article in question (back in 1988 or thereabouts) did 
not help matters.

>>Anyway, so if anybody knows how influenced C93/DIJ/SI are by 
>>Strasserist and Third Force ideas, please tell me.
>
>Might I make the suggestion that you crosspost this discussion to
>alt.revolution.counter?  There was a discussion there not long ago 
>about the European New Right (which seems to be an alternate name 
>for the Third Force), especially about Alain de Benoist and others 
>associated with the French organization GRECE.  A poster there named 
>David Matthew Deane made some remarks about the affinities between 
>the ideas of the ENR and the sorts of things Neue Slowenische Kunst 
>are up to.  (He also seems to be a fan of DIJ.)  He ought to be of 
>some help.

Well, imagine my suprise to see my name mentioned here. I don't usually
read outside alt.revolution.counter, so thanks to the person who posted 
there.

I'm not sure how interested people are in politics, in that this is 
supposed to be a music oriented newsgroup. Judging by this thread, many 
of the people on this group don't know much about politics either. 
Still, if it will be of any help, I'll say what I know. Please remember, 
this comes from my own reading and research; I'm drawing conclusions and 
making assumptions, and am not making statements of fact except when I 
explicitly say so.

As to "third force": this is more commonly known as "third position" or 
"third way", and there are more varieties of these groups then can be 
listed here, and groups and alliances are changing constantly. During 
the 1970's and 80's, this tendency, growing out of various factions of 
the radical right, opposed both capitalism and communism (sometimes 
drawing on Strasserite socialism, sometimes drawing on the distributism 
of GK Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc), and opposed both the USA and USSR, 
Europe being seen as split between two alien, occupying superpowers. 
These groups tended to advocate a united Europe, in opposition to both 
the USA and USSR, an independent, united Europe being seen as a "third 
force". Other groups in this tendency emphasized regionalism and 
decentralism, more then European union. All bets are off now that the 
cold war is over; on the whole the USA and capitalism (symbolized by 
Disney World and rampant consumerism) are seen as the prime enemy of 
European culture and rooted ethnic identity. The English New Right 
magazine _Perspectives_ seems to be showing an affinity for ethnically 
based anarchism, but strangely also supports Maastricht.  But I digress.

As to the European New Right, this is an intellectual movement best 
represented by the French cultural organization GRECE: totalitarianism is 
seen by these thinkers as the attempt to destroy cultural diversity in 
the name of a total idea, which must be both universal and egalitarian 
(by making everything equal, differences are destroyed). This 
totalitarian ethic is said to have been introduced into Europe by 
Christianity, and to have been promulgated in secular form by 
universalistic movements such as liberalism, capitalism, communism, and 
so on. GRECE champions "the rights of peoples" and advocates ethnic 
autonomy (in France, for instance, GRECE backs the demands of Basques, 
Bretons, and Corsicans) and regional diversity, while most (but not all) 
members back some form of European union. Many in GRECE, such as Alain de 
Benoist, advocate paganism, seen as the true root of European culture and 
bulwark against totalitarian, uprooting, leveling forces. GRECE has been 
accused of fascism and nazism, naturally: GRECE sees these forces as 
byproducts of Western "democratic" mass ideologies and decracinated - and 
jacobin - concepts of nationhood. Accused of racism, GRECE responds that 
its critics are racists because they want to fit non-European peoples 
into European systems, because in the name of anti-racism they are bent 
on destroying racial (and cultural/ethnic) diversity. Accused of 
totalitarianism, GRECE responds that modern, mass culture is totalitarian 
in ends, if not in means, because it aims at the same totalitarian goals 
as communism (for example), by means of economic, psychological, and 
social manipulation rather than brute force.

What has this to do with Douglas Pearce, Patrick O'Kill (Patrick Leagas), 
et al? Well, the main exponent of the European New Right in the English 
language is an intellectual magazine called _The Scorpion_, edited by 
Michael Walker. Michael Walker is a friend of Tony Wakeford, one of the 
original members of Death in June. Michael Walker was a member of the 
National Front (radical right-wing, anti-immigration party in Britain) 
during the early 1980's, before striking out on his own. In an interview 
with Tony Wakeford in _The Fifth Path_ (issues 3 and 4), Wakeford says 
that he (Wakeford) was never a member of the National Front, but that 
some of his friends and acquaintences had joined (here he probably refers 
to Walker, but might also be referring to others). In an interview with 
Douglas Pearce in _The Fifth Path_ (issue 1), Pearce states that he was 
never a member of the National Front, and that he had no interest in it.  
Knowing what I know about Pearce, and what he stated in the interview, I 
rather doubt that he ever joined a political group. He doesn't strike me 
as the "activist" type. 

However, I have no doubt of his political leanings.  Take a look at a 
recent DIJ double CD "Something is Coming". This was done in Croatia 
during the Croatian-Serbian fighting last year, and the only conclusion 
one can draw from it is that Pearce is pro-Croat, just as most Western 
European radical rightists (not all of whom are nazis or fascists, please 
note) are/were pro-Croat (the threat of Western intervention has caused 
many to take a more pro-Serb, or at least neutralist, stance of late). 

As to Patrick Leagas, in one of his Sixth Comm CDs there's a song at 
the end of which Leagas lists in the background, "our cultural and 
intellectual heritage...(its a little hard to  hear and my memory is 
a little shaky on the details)...the distributists, the national 
socialists, the..." (memory fails me at this point, sorry) Leagas' 
wife, according to something I read (_The Fifth Path_ again, if memory 
serves), is a pagan Asatru ("Odinist" or nordic pagan) priestess. They 
do various pagan/occult stuff, as does Freya Aswynn, who Leagas has 
worked with (Aswynn is on some C93 stuff, and has written a very 
interesting book on the runes).

Getting back to Tony Wakeford, his work as Sol Invictus is very 
pagan and nationalist, though not explicitly right-wing. He was 
involved with a New Right oriented cultural organization in 
Britain called Iona, which was affiliated with Michael Walker's 
_The Scorpion_ magazine. Please note that many radical rightists 
in Europe take positions that the ignorant somehow assume to be 
intrinsically "leftist". Many rightists oppose nuclear weapons 
(or at least foreign nuclear weapons on their soil), oppose the 
destruction of the environment, oppose fundamentalist religion 
and judeo-christian sexual morality, all for perfectly good, 
right-wing, nationalist reasons. These people have been active in 
Britain, for instance, in ALF and as hunt sabs. Many are involved 
in green political organizations. There are even some homosexual 
and bisexual rightists who are involved in "gay" politics in 
Europe, according to some of my sources. Of course, all this will 
confuse the ideological flatlanders and dualists out there; to 
them I apologize for causing them mental anguish. I'm sure they're 
happier thinking of everyone who is right of center as somehow, at 
the same time, conservative/anti-environment/nazi/capitalist/ 
christian/nazi-pagan/homophobe/closet-homo/libertarian/fascist and 
so on. Be warned: life is more complicated then you think.

So then - do I think that Douglas Pearce, Patrick Leagas, and Tony 
Wakeford are right-wingers, even nationalists? Yes. Do I think that they 
are nazis or fascists? No, unless by such demon words you simply mean 
anyone who will not bow down to the dominant social ideology, or anyone 
who enjoys making people nervous and tweaking the sensibilities of the 
sheep-like masses.

I close with some quotes from the liner notes of the DIJ CD, "Oh How We
Laughed":

Oh how we laughed at your failure to see in us, yourselves.
When you scorn us you thrust a dagger in your own heart,
for those who know not their own Self know nothing at all.
"So this guitar kills fascists?" 
Does it really you braindead bastard.

Yours Lovingly, Patrick O'Kill

******************************

Review Sounds, December 5th, 1987:

A missive from Death in June's dark corridor, where acknowledgement 
of their unsettling beauty and the power of their music was so often 
forgotten in atorrent of misinformed debate about their alleged 
political leanings, 'Oh How We Laughed' is a formidable if dour 
document.

An apparently random but abominably forceful live recording from 1982, 
by nature and period. It's nowhere near as memorable as the best moment, 
'Nada!', where they took on acoustic-gothic bunneymen and voguish snyth-
sleaze with a grimly humourous countenance and won. Predating that LP, 
it relies largely on raw, incessant drumbeats and declamatory vocals, 
shuddering to a climax on the tape-loopish intensity of 'In the Nighttime'.

Elsewhere it embraces rough deliveries of excellent numbers like 'Heaven
Street', and also hints at the subleties that were to come, as plaintive
trumpet and keyboards drop in unannounced.

**************************************

Anyone who refuses to listen to DIJ or any other group simply because 
they're afraid they might be "nazis" or "fascists" is truly pathetic. 
They will have deprived themselves of some wonderful musical 
experiences: serves them right.

-------------------------------------------------------------
David Matthew Deane                   	When the words fold open,
(deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu)         	it means the death of doors;
                                      	even casement windows 
					sense the danger.
                                      	(Amon Liner)


From boe666@u.washington.edu Sat Oct 15 06:18:08 EDT 1994
Article: 52092 of rec.music.industrial
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From: boe666@u.washington.edu (Beast of Eden)
Newsgroups: alt.gothic,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Politics of DIJ, Sol Invictus, etc. (Repost 2/2)
Date: 9 Oct 1994 05:39:14 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
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Status: O

From: patrik@shell.portal.com (Patrick M Crumhorn)
Organization: Portal Communications Company
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1993 19:05:39 GMT

Kevin Busby (kevinb@syma.sussex.ac.uk) wrote:

: Peter Werner (boe666@carson.u.washington.edu) wrote:

: > Anyway, If I'm not mistaken, I read that Douglas Pearce and/or Patrick 
: > O'Kill were fascists, at least to a degree.  Specifically, I heard that 
: > they were admirers not of Hitler but of Otto Strasser.

: Can you remember where you read/heard this? I don't doubt your word, 
: but it's a shame that few controverisal allegations made in this 
: newsgroup are backed up with sources (cf. the recent one about Coil 
: and child abuse).

    I'm surprised no one else has mentioned the lyrics to DIJ's "We 
Drive East."  "We drive East, to fight the Bolshevik Beast."   Doesn't 
sound like a bunch of "pro-Soviet" Strasserites to me.  But, then, I 
suppose the lyrics are meant "ironically."   
    Boyd Rice appeared a couple of years ago on a public access TV show
called "Race and Reason," hosted/produced by Thom Metzger of the
organization WAR (White Aryan Resistance).  Boyd specifically identified
Death in June and Current 93 as "racialist" groups.  Now, Boyd is a
prankster who talks off the top of his head a lot, but such claims are
non-trivial, and if Douglas and/or Tibet had been mis-represented in 
such a way by Boyd, I would think they would make every attempt to deny 
it.  Indeed, Tibet has made his views toward Hitler known in the liner 
notes of "Hitler as Kalki," and he does NOT seem sympathetic.  But 
reading Douglas P.'s careful finessing of the subject in several 
interviews (including one in the overtly third-force magazine "The Fifth 
Path"), he really seems to be trying to have it both ways, obliquely 
re-assuring those who may be squeamish about fascism, while allowing the 
"true believers" to continue to take the symbols and lyrics at face 
value.  
    In short, I think the jury is still out on DIJ's position on 
fascism, and I imagine Douglas P. prefers it that way, for reasons of 
his own.

			Patrick Crumhorn	patrik@cup.portal.com


From: deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (David Matthew Deane)
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 23:22:20 GMT

In article , 
patrik@shell.portal.com (Patrick M Crumhorn) writes:

>    I'm surprised no one else has mentioned the lyrics to DIJ's "We 
> Drive East." 

I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up.

>"We drive East, to fight the Bolshevik Beast."   

As I recall, it was "let loose from the leash, to hunt the Bolshevik Beast."

>Doesn't sound like a bunch of "pro-Soviet" Strasserites to me. 

Sigh. I was trying to slip quietly away after saying my piece, but I 
really feel I need to clear up a few misconceptions. First of all, all 
national socialists - the Strasser brothers included - were anti-
communist and would have been willing to attack the Soviet Union at some 
point. It was a question of priorities. The Strassers were strongly 
socialist, so they felt that Germany could get along better with the USSR 
- at least for a while - and that the number one enemy was the capitalist 
West. Hitler's priorities were the reverse - he had no compunction 
against fighting the West, but for Hitler the USSR was the primary enemy. 
Stasserites were only "pro-Soviet" in the sense that they saw communists 
as misguided folks who could (in Germany at least) be turned to the Nazi 
cause, and who were preferable to liberal capitalists. It was not the 
Strasserites who were really pro-Soviet, but rather the national 
bolsheviks, and the national bolsheviks had very little influence on the 
Nazi party.

As to DIJ: there are a number of song lyrics which suggest a Strasserite 
point of view, although they could just as well be from the point of 
view of any conservative, anti-communist person who was disillusioned 
with Hitler. Take, for instance, "Knives" which would seem to refer to 
the infamous "Night of the Long Knives" in 1934, where not only Roehm, 
Strasser, and other Nazis were killed, but also leading non-nazi 
conservatives and "conservative revolutionary" intellectuals. Those who 
were not killed were censored or otherwise silenced. 

To continue: "Heaven Street" suggests disillusionment with a system gone 
monstrously awry: "weighty feet frozen to the ground"; oppressive: 
"rifle butts to crush you down"; and genocidal: "the earth explodes with 
the gas of bodies". And yet: "this road leads to heaven". Is this irony? 
I don't think so. For one thing, it is far too heavy handed - irony 
requires a deft touch. What this is, is not irony, but TRAGEDY. Not 
tragedy in some kind of melodramatic sense, but tragedy in existential 
terms. Despairing yet life-affirming. As Joseph Campbell explained to 
the shocked Bill Moyers, even soldiers in an "unjust war" can be heroes 
because heroism comes not from adhering to some moral code, but from 
affirming one's fate, and (to borrow from Nietzsche), "saying yes to 
life." The tragedy of human life is that it ends in death. "In the midst 
of life we are in death." And yet, in the midst of death there is life. 

Looking again at "We Drive East" we see more of the same. The soldier - 
I might even say "political soldier", but that would assume some 
affinity on the part of DIJ for certain British "third position" groups 
in the mid-1980's - the soldier is not being allowed to fight a war of 
liberation "against the Bolshevik Beast" but has been dragooned ("let 
loose from the leash") into a genocidal war not of his own making: "just 
a soldier, an agitator, marching  towards the, incinerator"; marching 
towards inevitable doom: "the hangman  awaits." The cause for which the 
soldier fights is just: "we carried our banner high"; but has been 
betrayed. The soldier's sacrifice has been in vain:  "we paid in blood...
to die on the steppes....we paid in blood....for a free Europe...we died 
for nought". This seems to me to be consistent with both an anti-Hitler 
and an anti-communist point of view.

> But, then, I suppose the lyrics are meant "ironically."   

Not bloody likely.

>    Boyd Rice appeared a couple of years ago on a public access TV show 
>called "Race and Reason," hosted/produced by Thom Metzger of the 
>organization WAR (White Aryan Resistance).  Boyd specifically identified
>Death in June and Current 93 as "racialist" groups.  Now, Boyd is a
>prankster who talks off the top of his head a lot, but such claims are
>non-trivial, and if Douglas and/or Tibet had been misrepresented in such
>a way by Boyd, I would think they would make every attempt to deny it.

That Boyd, he's such a kidder!  :-P

It is important to point out that "racialist" has a particular meaning on 
the right. In Britain, I believe the word is used interchangeably with 
"racist". However, many radical rightists distinguish between "racism" 
seen as unwarranted, generalized hatred of other races, and "racialism" 
seen as a positive affirmation of one's racial identity, without any 
necessary hatred of other races. So perhaps Boyd was telling the truth - 
as he understood it. One can be a "racialist" without being a racist. 
However, I see no particular evidence that Tibet is a "racialist". I 
simply don't know anything about his political beliefs.

>Indeed, Tibet has made his views toward Hitler known in the liner notes 
>of "Hitler as Kalki," and he does NOT seem sympathetic.  But reading 
>Douglas P.'s careful finessing of the subject in several interviews 
>(including one in the overtly third-force magazine "The Fifth Path"), 

Interestingly, I met the editor of _The Fifth Path_ when I was living in
California. It was a social function and we did not talk much about 
politics. He was a rather quiet young man dressed in black. The magazine 
seems as much interested in Satanism, drugs, and the occult as in "third 
force" politics. And yes, Douglas P. was rather coy in _The Fifth Path_ 
interview. Asked why he has so many apparently nazi symbolisms in his 
work, Douglas replies that he doesn't know what the questioner is 
talking about; he doesn't think about political or other ideas in his 
work, he produces his work as though a man possessed, intoxicated with 
the music, and so on. Indeed; but why is Douglas always drawing *that* 
kind of material out of his subconcious?

>he really seems to be trying to have it both ways, obliquely re-
>assuring those who may be squeamish about fascism, while allowing the 
>"true believers" to continue to take the symbols and lyrics at face 
>value.  
>    In short, I think the jury is still out on DIJ's position on 
>fascism, and I imagine Douglas P. prefers it that way, for reasons of 
>his own.

Sure. Mystique is what DIJ is all about.

David Matthew Deane		Who would remember Helen's face
deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu	Lacking the terrible halo of spears?
                                                  (Robinson Jeffers)


From: hthornbu@osiris.hmc.edu (Harvey Thornburg)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA USA
Date: 7 Dec 1993 19:08:13 GMT

In article <1993Dec6.232220.17000@news.cs.brandeis.edu>,
David Matthew Deane  wrote:

->In article ,
->patrik@shell.portal.com (Patrick M Crumhorn) writes:

->>    I'm surprised no one else has mentioned the lyrics to DIJ's "We 
->> Drive East."

->I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up.

->>"We drive East, to fight the Bolshevik Beast."

->As I recall, it was "let loose from the leash, to hunt the Bolshevik 
->Beast."

->>Doesn't sound like a bunch of "pro-Soviet" Strasserites to me.

->To continue: "Heaven Street" suggests disillusionment with a system 
->gone monstrously awry: "weighty feet frozen to the ground"; oppressive: 
->"rifle butts to crush you down"; and genocidal: "the earth explodes 
->with the gas of bodies". And yet: "this road leads to heaven". Is this 
->irony? I don't think so. For one thing, it is far too heavy handed
->irony requires a deft touch.

Yeah, but this was their first album; give them a break :)

->What this is, is not irony, but TRAGEDY. Not tragedy in some kind of 
->melodramatic sense, but tragedy in existential terms. Despairing yet 
->life-affirming. As Joseph Campbell explained to the shocked Bill 
->Moyers, even soldiers in an "unjust war" can be heroes because heroism 
->comes not from adhering to some moral code, but from affirming one's 
->fate, and (to borrow from Nietzsche), "saying yes to life." The 
->tragedy of human life is that it ends in death. "In the midst of life 
->we are in death." And yet, in the midst of death there is life.

Ok, agreed - I think I see what you're trying to say here. It's certainly 
an interpretation; however, see below...

[deleted...]

->Looking again at "We Drive East" we see more of the same. The soldier 
->I might even say "political soldier", but that would assume some 
->affinity on the part of DIJ for certain British "third position" 
->groups in the mid-1980's - the soldier is not being allowed to fight a 
->war of liberation "against the Bolshevik Beast" but has been dragooned 
->("let loose from the leash") into a genocidal war not of his own making:
->"just a soldier, an agitator, marching  towards the, incinerator"; 
->marching towards inevitable doom: "the hangman  awaits." The cause for 
->which the soldier fights is just: "we carried our banner high"; but has 
->been betrayed. The soldier's sacrifice has been in vain:  "we paid in 
->blood...to die on the steppes....we paid in blood....for a free 
->Europe...we died for nought". This seems to me to be consistent with 
->both an anti-Hitler and an anti-communist point of view.

As does "Till the living flesh is burned" : "And then they were shown his 
true face...blood from the race" and "State laughter": "Our distant youth/ 
Like flowers in bloom/State laughter for all of you".  I see these three 
songs being in general very anti-totalitarian in focus, particularly with 
respect to the military as a total institution.  However, particularly in 
the case of "State Laughter" and "TTLFB" I do not see the soldiers fighting 
over any noble ideals; no "wars of liberation" to be found here.  For 
example, the title of the latter does not exactly conjure up positive
images with respect to any war (rather, sickening and disturbing images) 
and the former repeats the phrase "And the riches seep/From the holes in 
the walls".  Liberation? Not exactly.  However, whether they were blatantly
anti-Bolshevik or pro-Bolshevik or generally ambivalent is not the issue,
at least not in my mind.  I interpret these lyrics as showing where the
fascination for power/war will get people.  Also, don't forget "Torture
Garden": "the will to power...the will to war...in the torture garden".  
No, I don't think DiJ have put what they percieve as the innate human
fascination for power/war in an exactly positive light...

Indeed, when I think of the present neo-nazi movement, I cannot help but
recall the sentiments in "State laughter" - if a real Hitler rose up 
again, they'd be the first to go...

->> But, then, I suppose the lyrics are meant "ironically."   

->Not bloody likely.

See above.  However, perhaps we are each reading our own political ideals 
into the lyrics; in any case as I said, it doesn't really matter to me
whether they pictured fighting communists as "noble" or not. See above.

->>    Boyd Rice appeared a couple of years ago on a public access TV 
->>show called "Race and Reason," hosted/produced by Thom Metzger of 
->>the organization WAR (White Aryan Resistance).  Boyd specifically 
->>identified Death in June and Current 93 as "racialist" groups.  Now, 
->>Boyd is a prankster who talks off the top of his head a lot, but such 
->>claims are non-trivial, and if Douglas and/or Tibet had been mis-
->>represented in such a way by Boyd, I would think they would make 
->>every attempt to deny it.

->That Boyd, he's such a kidder!  :-P

->It is important to point out that "racialist" has a particular meaning 
->on the right. In Britain, I believe the word is used interchangeably 
->with "racist". However, many radical rightists distinguish between 
->"racism" seen as unwarranted, generalized hatred of other races, and 
->"racialism" seen as a positive affirmation of one's racial identity, 
->without any necessary hatred of other races. So perhaps Boyd was 
->telling the truth - as he understood it. One can be a "racialist" 
->without being a racist. However, I see no particular evidence that 
->Tibet is a "racialist". I simply don't know anything about his 
->political beliefs.

"Boyd was telling the truth, as he understood it" - Sounds like another
exploitative media prank ... Given that the American public is like
"Racialist? Oh, that's Nazi-speak for racist - they sure have terrible
English..."  Funny, Boyd...no not really

->>Indeed, Tibet has made his views toward Hitler known in the liner 
->>notes of "Hitler as Kalki," and he does NOT seem sympathetic.  But 
->>reading Douglas P.'s careful finessing of the subject in several 
->>interviews (including one in the overtly third-force magazine "The 
->>Fifth Path"),

->Interestingly, I met the editor of _The Fifth Path_ when I was living 
->in California. It was a social function and we did not talk much about 
->politics. He was a rather quiet young man dressed in black. The 
->magazine seems as much interested in Satanism, drugs, and the occult 
->as in "third force" politics. And yes, Douglas P. was rather coy in 
->_The Fifth Path_ interview. Asked why he has so many apparently nazi 
->symbolisms in his work, Douglas replies that he doesn't know what the 
->questioner is talking about; he doesn't think about political or other 
->ideas in his work, he produces his work as though a man possessed, 
->intoxicated with the music, and so on. Indeed; but why is Douglas 
->always drawing *that* kind of material out of his subconcious?

You see, these statements are the whole beauty of the situation - the 
entire irony, the complete mystique.  I think in some ways Douglas 
_wants_ to have people think he's a nazi inside, as to avoid hypocrisy 
over his subtle insinuations that we are _all_ potential nazis somewhere 
deep down, lest we forget when the time comes again...  Damn straight 
this disturbs me, but I can sort of see his point.  Recall also 
Patrick's quote: "Oh, how we laughed in your failure to see in us 
yourselves... When you scorn us you thrust a dagger into your own 
heart."  Anyway, by no means is this the only way to interpret Douglas, 
this just sums up what _I_ get out of the music.

Perhaps with Boyd it's the same thing, but we all have to agree he's 
maybe a wee bit screwed in the head?

->Sure. Mystique is what DIJ is all about.

Again, agreed, although probably for different reasons.

->David Matthew Deane		  Who would remember Helen's face
->deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu	  Lacking the terrible halo of spears?
->                                                  (Robinson Jeffers)
--
 :"categories strain, crack, and      : Harvey D. Thornburg  	    \|/  :
 : sometimes break...step out of the  :                              |   :
 : space provided" -S. Stapleton      : hthornbu@osiris.ac.hmc.edu   |   :


From: deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (David Matthew Deane)
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: 8 Dec 93 18:39:09 GMT

In article <2e2kat$r9o@jaws.cs.hmc.edu>, 
hthornbu@osiris.hmc.edu (Harvey Thornburg) writes:

  (deletions)
>-> And yet: "this road leads to heaven". Is this irony? I don't think
>->For one thing, it is far too heavy handed - irony requires a deft 
>->touch. 
>
>Yeah, but this was their first album; give them a break :)

I assume you are being ironic here, hence ":)". Of course the "heavy-
handed" style to which I refer is intrinsic to early DIJ and not a 
product of inexperience, and is, I would argue, appropriate to the 
message. As to irony itself, Laibach has a little gem of a quote on 
the pitfalls and limitations of "irony".

  (deletions)
>As does "Till the living flesh is burned" : "And then they were shown 
>his true face...blood from the race" and "State laughter": "Our distant 
>youth/Like flowers in bloom/State laughter for all of you".  

One of my favorite lines from DIJ.

>I see these three songs being in general very anti-totalitarian in 
>focus, particularly with respect to the military as a total institution. 

Of course. This is consistent with a certain brand of "third position" 
or European New Right thinking. A good example is of this is DIJ member 
Tony Wakeford, who was a member of a New Right cultural organization 
(Iona) and who, in letters and interviews I have read, has argued for an 
anti-imperialist, anti-totalitarian politics based on conservative, even 
rightist principles: ethnicity, tradition, local and regional identity 
and autonomy, and so on. These are certainly anti-totalitarian points of 
view, but that does not keep the crass, the ignorant, and the hateful 
from labeling them "nazi" or "fascist". That has been the point I have 
been trying to get at in these posts: I certainly don't think that DIJ 
are closet nazis, but at the same time, I don't think that any kind of 
ingenious use of "irony" can somehow turn them into politically correct 
automatons. Not if one examines the political positions taken by 
individual DIJ members.

  (deletions)
>No, I don't think DiJ have put what they percieve as the innate human
>fascination for power/war in an exactly positive light...

I was not arguing that. The point of "tragedy" (as opposed to irony) is 
that it allows one to move beyond false dichotomies.

>Indeed, when I think of the present neo-nazi movement, I cannot help 
>but recall the sentiments in "State laughter" - if a real Hitler rose 
>up again, they'd be the first to go...

Just as many conservatives, right-wing intellectuals, "conservative
revolutionaries", etc., were the first to go, not just the communists 
and those on the left. Consider the poet Stefan George, a right-winger 
and elitist if there ever was one. He was accused of glorifying war and 
violence, but he did not support the Nazis and he left Germany when
Hitler came to power. Nowhere have I been arguing that DIJ *want* 
another Hitler. What I have been trying to say is that the whole 
argument over alleged "nazi tendencies" obscures what DIJ is really 
trying to say. On this we agree, at least.

  (deletions)
>->That Boyd, he's such a kidder!  :-P

Observe: unsubtle attempt at irony on my part. Sigh.  :-/

  (deletions)
>"Boyd was telling the truth, as he understood it" - Sounds like another
>exploitative media prank ... Given that the American public is like
>"Racialist? Oh, that's Nazi-speak for racist - they sure have terrible
>English..."  Funny, Boyd...no not really

Your prose is a bit hard to follow here. A hint, if you want to deciper 
my meaning. The little face has its tongue sticking out, in mock gagging.
Thus:  :-P

  (deletions)
>You see, these statements are the whole beauty of the situation - the 
>entire irony, the complete mystique.  I think in some ways Douglas 
>_wants_ to have people think he's a nazi inside, as to avoid hypocrisy 
>over his subtle insinuations that we are _all_ potential nazis 
>somewhere deep down, lest we forget when the time comes again...  Damn 
>straight this disturbs me, but I can sort of see his point.  Recall 
>also Patrick's quote: "Oh, how we laughed in your failure to see in us 
>yourselves... When you scorn us you thrust a dagger into your own 
>heart."  Anyway, by no means is this the only way to interpret Douglas, 
>this just sums up what _I_ get out of the music.

I agree with your interpretation of the above quote. It lends itself to a 
wonderful, layered series of interpretations, however. Since I do know for
a fact that at least one member of DIJ was a member of an organization that
the braindead left insists on calling "fascist", the above quote can be 
seen, in addition, as a concealed barb at those who insist on seeing evil 
in a particular political position, but not in other political positions. 
As I said, irony is a double-edged sword and sometimes the best place to 
hide is in plain sight.

>Perhaps with Boyd it's the same thing, but we all have to agree he's 
>maybe a wee bit screwed in the head?

I think he's more intent on screwing up other people's heads. 

>->Sure. Mystique is what DIJ is all about.
>
>Again, agreed, although probably for different reasons.

Close enough for government work.

David Matthew Deane		Who would remember Helen's face
deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu	Lacking the terrible halo of spears?
                                                  (Robinson Jeffers)


Subject: Douglas P. comments on Nazis

From: cdenoble@whale.st.usm.edu (Clark Richard Denoble Jr)
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
Date: 6 Dec 1993 23:22:42 GMT

The following is a short interview with Douglas P. I don't know what
magazine it appeared in. A copy was sent to me by a friend, the original
interview was in German, the translation was included.

Hope this helps shed light on the subject...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: What do you think about the right extremists taking over and the
   encroachment of the foreigners in Germany?

Douglas: In the first place I don't like bumb people (annoyed). Why
should I or DIJ have something to do with these stupid skinheads or
the neo-nazi shits? Is there something in my music, which would allow 
one to think, that I am interested in these people? Have you ever 
lived next door to gypsies? I can understand the grudge, which is
appearing in Eastern Germany. What have the people there since the
three year reunification [done] and are they waiting for the same high
standard of living like in Western Germany? Nothing. All that they
have is a stream of refugees from everywhere there. So their annoyances 
are only natural and understandable. Only because one is German, one 
becomes already accused of neo-nazi tendencies. But if English well! -
They would be far less tolerant. But what has all this to do with DIJ?
Why always political questions? For 11 years I have said that skinheads,
neo-nazis and violent criminals are complete assholes and I still say 
that today! There are indeed so many idiots in the left wing camp as
well. I don't think about such people. They are not a part of my world.
They are Nothing, like the trash on the street. The people are scum,
whether they are politically oriented or not. I am certain, that most
of the people have no understanding of the differences between the 
dialectical of Marx and Hitler or of Himmler's fascism.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although some of the flow seems to have been lost in the translation,
at very least it should now be CLEAR that Douglas P. is not a nazi....


TTFN--rick